Japanese out Germaning the Germans?

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Rifletuner
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Japanese out Germaning the Germans?

Post by Rifletuner » Fri May 24, 2019 11:56 pm

Many of my hunting rifles have some form of European scope on them with a German no4 reticle. The more I shoot these scopes, the more I like this reticle. Its gotten to the point that I have been selling off some of my scopes with Plex reticles and replacing them with scopes with German no 4 reticles. I just find the no4 reticle configuration very quick to frame up and settle on game for the shot, and the heavier lines that make up the no4 reticle work well for me under pretty much any lighting conditions. Granted, its not the best reticle for shooting paper, but thats a non issue given what I use these rifles for.

I am currently looking for a couple of additional hunting scopes, so when I went to hunt expo today, one of my objectives was to compare as many reticles on premium optics as possible. I took a look at scopes from Khales, Swarovski, Leica and GPO. I meant to look at Zeiss, but somehow forgot to look at those when I went through the OSA stand. I also wanted to look at some S&B models, but they didnt seem to have anyone exhibiting them at the show.

What I found was that most of the current models I looked at with a no4 reticle had much thinner cross-hairs than the older no4 reticles that I am used to. I really dont know that I could acquire a sight picture in low light conditions with these scopes, irrespective of their great quality optics. It may be that people are relying on illuminated dots nowadays, or people shooting longer ranges wanting finer reticles that are driving this trend. Not sure - just guessing.

On a bit of a whim, I took a look at the German Precision Oprtics scopes (which are actually made in Japan), and was surprised to find that their rendition of a no4 reticle was much closer to the reticle image I like to see in a hunting scope. I would really like to see one of these scopes in low light to see how the optics stack up against the higher end Euro optics. And I recognise this is very much a personal choice issue. But I was surprised by the extent of the difference I saw.

I dont really have a particular point or conclusion from all this. Or I guess if I have any conclusion, its that I prefer the 15+ year old scopes that I am familiar with. Or that I am turning into a grumpy old man. Or something.



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SPEEDY
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Re: Japanese out Germaning the Germans?

Post by SPEEDY » Sat May 25, 2019 1:07 am

Japanese glass is very good, it's nice to see they are sticking with the traditional, strange as they may seem.
I've got a Kahles with a 4A reticle and after spending most my life with a Plex reticle I was initially disappointed thinking I wouldn't get used to it, now it's my favorite rifle scope and I wish my other scopes had that same reticle.
I'm soft and I don't care. :dance:

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Re: Japanese out Germaning the Germans?

Post by mchughcb » Sat May 25, 2019 1:22 am

Had a look at the zeiss V4 made in Japan today and rhe complete Swarovski range. Then i had a look at the leica fortis and their 1-6x24 ir has a fov of 44m at 100m. The reticle is too fine but thats offset buy the red dot illumination.

The 0.75 swaro gave me a bit of fisheye but maybe i didn't have it setup right.

Long story short if you can afford it stick with swaro or leica.

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Re: Japanese out Germaning the Germans?

Post by mchughcb » Sat May 25, 2019 1:24 am

Anyhoo, did anybody catch the blond promotions girl at the wolfeyes stand. Holy moly.

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Re: Japanese out Germaning the Germans?

Post by secondtry » Sat May 25, 2019 1:28 am

Another grump on reticles here :D

Spidery thin things, even if they are called No 4 or 4A, are the main reason that I don't own any Swarovskis. The poverty pack Z3s have a much better 4A than the expensive models IMO. Go figure.

Have a look at the No 60 on the Zeiss HTs. They are my current favourite.

With illumination, I don't feel the need for the very heavy bars of old No 4s, but neither do I want a spider web reticle. :( :(
Last edited by secondtry on Sat May 25, 2019 1:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Japanese out Germaning the Germans?

Post by secondtry » Sat May 25, 2019 1:29 am

mchughcb wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 1:24 am
Anyhoo, did anybody catch the blond promotions girl at the wolfeyes stand. Holy moly.
Sounds like you were putting the "wolf" into Wolf Eyes. :lol: :lol:

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Re: Japanese out Germaning the Germans?

Post by SPEEDY » Sat May 25, 2019 1:40 am

I don't like illuminated scopes so a thick reticle suits me just fine.
I'm soft and I don't care. :dance:

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Re: Japanese out Germaning the Germans?

Post by 9.3x64 » Sat May 25, 2019 1:52 am

Zeiss number 60 on the HT and V8 are my favourite by far.
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Re: Japanese out Germaning the Germans?

Post by Rifletuner » Sat May 25, 2019 2:34 pm

mchughcb wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 1:24 am
Anyhoo, did anybody catch the blond promotions girl at the wolfeyes stand. Holy moly.
It must work for him. He does that at every show. Although at the last Melbourne Shot I am pretty sure he had a couple of girls handing out flyers.

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Re: Japanese out Germaning the Germans?

Post by Rifletuner » Sat May 25, 2019 2:37 pm

A couple of votes here for the Zeiss no 60 and I must say I agree. I have one Zeiss with that reticle and I do like it. Its the only Illuminated reticle scope I own.

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Re: Japanese out Germaning the Germans?

Post by Dom » Sat May 25, 2019 8:09 pm

Grumpy old man here with fading eyes . . . Since illuminated scopes invented old reticles are a non issue for me, got plenty of No 4, but won't buy no more of em. The Zeiss 60 illuminated is a winner, wish all my scopes had that reticle.
-------- There are those who only reload so they can shoot, and then there are those who only shoot so they can reload. I belong to the first group. Dom --------------

Rifletuner
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Re: Japanese out Germaning the Germans?

Post by Rifletuner » Sat May 25, 2019 9:23 pm

Dom wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 8:09 pm
Grumpy old man here with fading eyes . . . Since illuminated scopes invented old reticles are a non issue for me, got plenty of No 4, but won't buy no more of em. The Zeiss 60 illuminated is a winner, wish all my scopes had that reticle.
I am definitely guilty of having dodgy eyes. Aside from over 5 decades of use, I have astigmatism, so they are not doing me any favors :violin: :violin: :violin:

However I'm not convinced its entirely an age thing. I handed a demo scope to my son before I commented on it, and he promptly declared the crosshair too thin. But I am willing to accept its a personal taste issue.

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Re: Japanese out Germaning the Germans?

Post by stokesrj » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:19 pm

I too, prefer the traditional #4 reticle over the thinner 4A if the scope is not an illuminated version. I have three Zeiss HTs with #60 reticles and find them quite acceptable. I also like the simple illumination control on these scopes. I generally dislike the thinner Swarovski reticles, however, my Z8i 1.7-13.3X42 rail mount with the flex reticle has exceeded my expectations in real world hunting situations. At first I didn't like the circle dot illumination but it has grown on me to the point I'm considering selling all my Zeiss and buying a couple more of the Z8i rail mount versions.
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Re: Japanese out Germaning the Germans?

Post by Pigeon » Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:31 am

stokesrj wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:19 pm
I'm considering selling all my Zeiss and buying a couple more of the Z8i rail mount versions.

:D - You are not alone bitten by that bug: When I put my first Z8i scope to my .375H&H I let any other rifle sitting in my safe (and they all had Swarovski and 1 Zeiss on top!), because it is so brilliant... It just started to keep at home, when I had the next one (my K95) equipped with the next Z8i scope...

Good taste may be expensive, but it is worth!!! :whistle:
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Re: Japanese out Germaning the Germans?

Post by Joe338ST » Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:52 am

Zeiss 60 reticle with centre dot illumination is just awesome....
Joe

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