K95 with open sights

[Gun Barrel Ecologist]

I would imagine that if you spent long enough flicking through the recknagel catalogue you would find the old one solid and one either side folding rear sight insert to fit the Blaser block once you drift out the standard rear site. Trouble I can see is the standard front sight is very broad and not designed for the precision work you intend.
Then we come to the .257roy - do you need 3 leaves to cover the minuscule drop at the ranges where the front sight won’t obscure the vitals of a fallow?

A while ago Oscar and I hunted goats in order to blood a 9,3x62 M03 tracker barrel. We got damned close by rifle standards in order to ensure the front sight didn’t obscure the goat

[stokesrj]

I started with open sights, and have killed deer out to 250 yards with no problems. Then I learned what metallic sights were really capable of pursuing my US Distinguished Rifleman badge. In the National Match High Power Rifle course of fire you shoot, 200 yards, off hand slow fire, 200 yards sitting rapid fire, 300 yard prone rapid fire and 600 yards prone slow fire. As I learned to shoot the receiver sights on my M16 Service Rifle I was totally amazed at how well open sights could be used at 600 yards as long as there was sufficient contrast, I could shoot them as accurately as I could with a high magnification scope. With metallic sights I have shot a 200-20X score which means that all 20 shots were in the X-ring which is a six inch circle and from the prone position from a sling not a rest. Any scope will not allow any better than that because the limitation is position, trigger control and wind doping, not aiming.

Today optics are allowed and scores have pretty much remained the same. It made no difference, the skill to shooting is not aiming, but establishing proper position and trigger control. Those are the hard parts of truly accurate rifle shooting.

However, I will add that hunting is much different, and animals don't offer the contrast that a paper target does, so the limitation is often just that, the contrast of the front sight against an animal in brush may be impossible. Scopes are far superior in that regard.

However, fine sights are not required, in fact, for my service rifle I used .052", .062" and .072" thick front sights and found that I shot the .072" wide front sight most accurately. The bullseye at 600 yards sitting on top of that wide post looks like a BB siting on the middle a two lane highway, yet the bullets go to the center every time provided my position and trigger control are good. The most accurate sights are square not round. This is because if light is coming in from either side, then the center of a round bead front sight will appear different than it actually is. A square post will allow more precise shot placement.

So I would say this, metallic sights are plenty accurate enough as long as the animal is well lit and offers sufficient contrast. I would not opt for multiple leafs. A single leaf dighted in for 200 yards is plenty good enough for a 300 yard shot with nearly any modern centerfire cartridge.

That is my take on it anyway.

[SPEEDY]

Using the standard opens sights on my R83 I could hit running goats at 100m pretty easy.

[Gun Barrel Ecologist]

The front site on an R93 is 0.107" what diameter is the black bull for service rifle?

[SPEEDY]

I've got one of the outstanding led front sights, makes it much easier and quicker to get the target aquired.

[Rod]

The standard iron sights on my R8 barrels in 30/06 & 9.3x62 are more than adequate for shooting tin cans at 100 meters.I have no problems shooting steel target at 200 and 300 yards under ideal conditions (good light) and I would certainly feel comfortable using them on deer size game out to 200yards. Maybe even 300 yards if absolutely required/needed for a finishing shot etc.

I wouldn't bother with a multi-leaf rear sight though. I'd just zero at 100 or 200 yards, depending on the caliber and where/what I was hunting and hold over / under if necessary.

As far as owing/using a rifle with a muti-leaf rear sight I have 2 that I have used a fair bit. An FN model 98 in 9.3x62 and a Brno 602 in 375 H&H. Only once in over 20 years have I ever used the 200 yard leaf in the field (375H&H) and I have never used the 300 yard leaf in the bush(9.3 or 375) I also own a couple of Rigby's with the multi-leaf rear sight. Both are yet to go bush. I seriously doubt whether the 200 and 300 yard leafs will get much use on either rifle when hunting but I will zero both on the range so that if the occasion/opportunity presents I can.

I also have shot the US High Power match with the M14's when we had them here. The accuracy that can be had with the peep-sight is truly unbelievable.

Good luck with your quest. I reckon there are few things more satisfying than shooting iron sights.

Cheers
Rod

[stokesrj]

I've got one of the outstanding led front sights, makes it much easier and quicker to get the target aquired.

The aiming black is 3 MOA for the MR1 600 yard target.

[SPEEDY]

I don't think I will be shooting much over 100m at game with open sights, let alone out to 600m.
Led for bad light and quick picture will do this hillbilly just fine.
I just wish my pop was around to bag me out over it, he always thought scopes were a wast of time and didn't even have a rear sight.

But damn that man could shoot.

[stokesrj]

Thanks that sounds like some good shooting. It reassures me that I might not be the only one who is interested in shooting open sights. After reading your post do you think the standard blaser sights on the k95 would be sufficient out to about 300meters on a deer or goat sized animal if it was chambered in 257 weatherby or even 30r blaser? and will the fibre optic front sight be beneficial in low contrast situations over a polished brass front bead?

The high contrast sights which are standard on round barrel K95 rifles are excellent sights. My octagonal barreled K95s and my BD14 have the round red bead and express rear sight which are excellent for close range work on moving game but not satisfactory for precise shot placement beyond 100 yards or so. If you are referring to the rectangular white plastic front sight, it will be very good. I can easily shoot sub MOA groups with my R8 barrels that have the high contrast sights.

[SPEEDY]

If been enjoying messing around with RB in the shotgun, now I'm looking at casting my own and paper patching.

I'm finding these days I'm hunting more but shooting less and just enjoying my time out bush more and anything I shoot I get more pleasure from.

I'm even seriously thinking about getting a front stuffer just to add an extra chalange to things.

[mchughcb]

I would only use a aimpoint micro.

[9.3x64]

I would only use a aimpoint micro.

I’m a bit of an old romantic at times I think what I’m trying to achieve is a return to times when scopes and modern devices were not relied on. I think iron sights and a single shot rifle will do that for me. I’m not against optics I own several scopes and a thermal spotter but I think it would be good to drop them for a change.

I get that. Nothing wrong with doing that occasionally.

[stokesrj]

I've also opted to use metallic sights when I had plenty of scoped rifles to choose from. There are personal challenges that make hunting that much more interesting, perhaps more challenging, and perhaps not. I personally don't see metallic sights as challenging for the majority of big game hunting. In fact using even a pistol caliber rifle with metallic sights, I could kill almost every animal I encounter while bow hunting that I let walk because the distance is to long, the shot angle not optimum, or limbs and brush in the path of the arrow.

One year when my oldest son was just starting hunting, I elected to use my Winchester model 94 30-30, partially for the challenge, partially for the nostalgia, and partially because it was handy and the focus was on helping my son be successful. He was very successful that year taking a nice bull elk, a Coues deer buck, a Javelina, and a Merriams turkey. I only attempted to take animals that I could do so without interfering with his hunting success.

I only took two shots that year, but both of them were memorable because of the rifle I chose to use and would otherwise blend into the clouded memories of so many other ordinary kills. One was on a Coues deer in the Cerro Colorado mountains at 250 yards which is a long ways with an open sighted 30-30. The other was a Merriams turkey on the Mogollon Rim that I took on the wing. I'll never forget that one, my son at his inexperienced state of hunting didn't see why I was so thrilled. He thought taking a turkey on the wing with a rifle would be normal.

Although both those kills were more than 25 years ago, I remember them in great detail, because of the Winchester 94 I chose to use.

I can't find the pic of the coues deer at the moment so will add it later if I find it. Here are a few pics of the areas and the turkey, you can tell by the camo and my black hair that it was a while ago.

[secondtry]

My first rifle was a 22rf Browning pump. When I bought it, I had an aperture sight fitted to it. I didn't want a scope.

The compact aperture sight was entirely adequate for everything that I did with that rife (mainly rabbits at RF ranges). I don't remember what the front sight was, and I think I usually used the aperture without a disc.

I've used the standard aperture and front sight at the range on the SLR/FN/FAL whatever with no problem. I have also used various open sighted civlian centrefires on targets at short ranges (100yds).

Provided both front and back sights are made with sharp and precise edges, and flat, square surfaces; the precision possible is without question. ON A TARGET.

There is a big difference between sitting a nice crisp black blade at the bottom of a nice sharp black bull and trying to pick a humanely precise aiming point on an irregularly shaped brown animal, maybe in dappled shade. For me, the sights cover far too much of the animal for me to be happy with open sights past around 100 yds on game animals.

By all means use the open sights.

If the sights are well made, you will be surprised at just how small your groups can be, but I believe 300 yards is unrealistic on animals.

[mchughcb]

Then its just necessary to shoot bigger animals closer with bigger calibres. Problem solved.