Newbie 8mm questions

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Newbie 8mm questions

Post by Gun Barrel Ecologist » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:19 pm

Finally got my 8x57is barrel into my safe at Christmas and just began preparing some Norma brass for load development.

A couple of queries:
I have rcbs “8x57 Mauser” dies and it seems the internal neck diameter is sized to .314”. Do rcbs and others make both a .318 and .323 version and have I bought the wrong one? I know they do two versions of the 8x75R

A Square’s manual list the trim length as 2.235” which is 56.something mm this is a bit of a departure from the 57mm on the dot of other 57mm cases such as the 7x57. The Lee trimmer pilot is even shorter!

And is anyone running a boring as bat manure 196g woodleigh at 2500fps with an ADI powder? If so, what powder and weight? Or is the lure of partitions and accubonds etc too strong?



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Re: Newbie 8mm questions

Post by 9.3x64 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:32 am

Shouldn't your RCBS dies be marked somewhere either
8x57 S or 8x57 IS ?
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Re: Newbie 8mm questions

Post by Gun Barrel Ecologist » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:19 am

That would be logical - so it's not done!

Looking at their die lists mine are "8x57 Mauser" which are group A
In group G we have "8x57J .318", "8x57Jr .318" & "8x57Rs .323" http://rcbs.com/Products/Dies-by-Catego ... tlene.aspx

When bench resters talk about neck tension of 0.003" they obviously didnt have these "8x57 Mauser" dies in mind. I'll admit its new brass so it might have a different plasticity and hence holding the .314 :think: but it looks like you could use the Group A dies for both .318 and .323 bullets so long as you dont mind over working brass if using the latter :doh:

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Re: Newbie 8mm questions

Post by Dinger » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:06 am

I have a set of Lee dies, they are marked 8x57...thats it. Now I need to check my neck tension damn you!

Re: Case length....that is correct, my trimmer runs them down to 56.7 and your 2.235" measurement is 56.77.

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Re: Newbie 8mm questions

Post by stokesrj » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:56 am

I always refer to cartridge and chamber drawings and since I’m mostly American, I first go to SAAMI for the drawings which might be a questionable plan for European calibers but I’m just a little stuck in my ways. The 8X57 Mauser case length specification is 2.240” max and -.020 for the min. Or, for my metric friends 56.90mm -.051mm. I find it interesting to note that this is the only version in SAAMI and it is specified as a .320-.323”diameter bullet.
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Re: Newbie 8mm questions

Post by secondtry » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:27 pm

Can't help with the RCBS question, because I am using Redding for my 8x57 IRS. Interestingly, the same die set is recommended by Redding for both rimmed and rimless in 8x57. I've never checked the dimensions or neck tension, but neither sizing nor seating feel like .318.

For ADI powder with 200s - definitely 2208. Despite what the ADI book says about 2206H being almost the same, I suspect that this changes at higher pressures.

For a load, you are on your own :lol: There is a suspicious agreement between data from both Nosler and ADI for 2208 and 200s. The Nosler/ADI max of 47 produced 2350 in my 8x57IRS. Added a grain (to 48) and velocity went down. Sure signs of a feeble low pressure, erratic load. The rimmed case may or may not be the same capacity as the rimless

My suggestion would be start at maybe 45g, less if you are concerned, and fire and chrono single shots with 1g increases until you get to a point at which pressure signs and velocity suggest that it might be worth shooting groups. I find this saves a lot of components and a lot of time. Sometimes this initial mucking around can be done without the need to make a trip to a range, which is a bonus.

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Re: Newbie 8mm questions

Post by Dom » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:30 pm

I have one set of RCBS Dies to load for both the IR and IRS. Dies are marked 8x57 Mauser, however I have two inner expanders. I took one of the .323 expanders and with some fine sandpaper and a drill it is now a 'bit' smaller and used for the IR .318 bullet in an old Sauer and Sohn Drilling.

The other expander is original and used for the IRS, using a .323 bullet.

It is winter here, so when it warms up I'll shoot my double Heym 26b. Looking for a recipe that duplicates the Norma 196gr Oryx factory loads.

I have loads already made up to test both RE15 and Varget, 46 and 47gr powder, using the Nosler Accubond 200gr bullet. Am hoping the correct combination will replicate what it was regulated with.
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Re: Newbie 8mm questions

Post by dchamp » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:12 pm

My RCBS Competition Die, 8X57 Mauser die, measures .3215". The mandrel/ button for my Forster 8X68 & RCBS 8mm Rem Mag both measure .322" Diameter. 160gr Barnes TTSX works outstandingly well in my 8X57's with IMR3031. I think the ADI equivalent is ADI Bench Mark 2. I have a load for 196gr Norma Alaskan using Norma 203-B which might be close to ADI 2208. Hodgdon's CFE223 works really well across the board in 8X57is. I'm getting good accuracy and 2435fps shooting 220gr Sierra Game Kings with it. I don't know if ADI has an equivalent for it though.
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Re: Newbie 8mm questions

Post by Gun Barrel Ecologist » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:55 pm

Thanks for the replies I’m hoping it is a peculiarly of new brass - I’ll remeasure outside diameters before and after seating bullets

Anyone tried 2209 with the 196/200g pills?
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Re: Newbie 8mm questions

Post by secondtry » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:00 pm

Gun Barrel Ecologist wrote:Thanks for the replies I’m hoping it is a peculiarly of new brass - I’ll remeasure outside diameters before and after seating bullets

Anyone tried 2209 with the 196/200g pills?
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Re: Newbie 8mm questions

Post by Gun Barrel Ecologist » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:23 pm

That sounds like a comment from an ex girlfriend :whistle:

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Re: Newbie 8mm questions

Post by caps » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:13 am

Gun Barrel Ecologist wrote:That sounds like a comment from an ex girlfriend :whistle:


And no matter how hard you try you can never get your balls in. :lol:

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Re: Newbie 8mm questions

Post by Gun Barrel Ecologist » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:36 am

So I've settled on testing 47 to 51g of '06H under the 170 STT - OAL is a no brainer as seating to the cannilure gives 3.05"

As for the 196g RN Woodies I'm thinking 45 to 49 of 2208. Anyone got a OAL they can share? DEVA states 76.5mm which equates to bullet just below the neck / into the shoulder

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Re: Newbie 8mm questions

Post by secondtry » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:04 pm

Just set up your OAL to suit your throat and mag length in the normal way.

Using someone else's arbitrary figure is not the path to reloading happiness. ;)

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Re: Newbie 8mm questions

Post by Gun Barrel Ecologist » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:24 am

But it’s quicker than my usual “load them to max mag length and then cycle them to make sure they don’t get stuck in the chamber”.
I’m also a big fan of “if it’s got a cannilure, use it” :lol: :lol:

Based on appearance alone my barrel has the typical long leade that makes you think it is second hand - last seen on a mates 9,3x62 - so intrigued if there is any point loading shorter than 80mm :think:

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