Newbie 8mm questions

[stokesrj]

I've found that, even with calibers designed with very long throats, seating depth is still a factor in tuning. The .308 is notorious for long throats. Nearly any repeating rifle chambered for it is limited by magazine length well before you even get close to touching the lands. My Remington 700 R5 shoots the 168 ELD-M best with a jump of 0.130" and seems to have an accuracy node every 0.035" or so until it touches the lands. The accuracy node at 0.130" is the only one that allows magazine feed.

[secondtry]

Try that 80mm with a 196 woodie and let us know whether or not there is any bullet in the case

[Gun Barrel Ecologist]

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That depends if I trim the cases

[Gun Barrel Ecologist]

Borrowed a mates chrony and was supposed to test some handloads last weekend but decided to just shoot the BGRC and avoid getting someone elses chrony wet.

The 130 year history of the 8x57 keeps things interesting; along with the chrony I was given a box of three types of FMJ ammo to test if I felt so inclined; Highland "8mm Mauser" aka Prvi Partisan 198g FMJ, O headstamp aka Sellior & Bellot nickel plated FMJ, and FMN headstamp Portugese FMJ. I have also been offered cheap Prvi ammo loaded with 175g PSPs.

The Prvi ammo is modern so I'd at least expect non corrosive boxer primers, same can not be said for the other two
When researching the offer I discovered that Prvi make both what they stamp 8mm Mauser and 8x57IS. Not sure if the last importers - Highland - brought in both or just the 8mm Mauser? From a CIP standpoint the "Mauser" ballistics are woefull; 175 @ 2330fps https://www.prvipartizan.com/search_rb.php?id=A-349, 198g @ 2180fps https://www.prvipartizan.com/search_rb.php?id=A-022 vs their IS ammo with a 196 soft point at 2460 fps https://www.prvipartizan.com/search_rb.php?id=A-128

After seeing this I brought out the calipers; Prvi is .320", the S&B .319.5" and FMN .322"

In contrast Woodleigh .323" projectiles measure .323" as do Hornady.

Truth to the old claim that there is "intermediate" 8x57 ammo safe for firing in both 7,92x57I and 7,92x57IS

[Gun Barrel Ecologist]

Hmm I think I might load some more with 50g what you guys reckon?

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[sav338]

looking good there GBE

[dchamp]

50gr's looks promising but what powder, bullet (196 woodleigh?), coal and velocity or did I miss that?

Some observations after looking back through this topic. RCBS and most loading manuals recommendation for trim to length is 2.23"(56.6mm) and a over all cartridge length of 3.225-3.228" or 81.9-82mm. 2.24 -2.244"(56.9-57mm) is consider Max Case Length.

Just in case. Norma factory ammo with 160gr EcoStrike is 3.030" COAL. Lapua factory with 180 Naturalis is 3.103" COAL. My hand loads with 160gr TTSX is 3.16" COAL and 220gr SGK is 3.205" COAL.

Do ADI powders have and equivalent to H414. I use to have a good load with H-414 and Hornady 195gr SP's.

[Gun Barrel Ecologist]

I'll start another thread with load data and chrony results - some interesting stuff such as 3 shots all doing precisely 2549fps with a 196gRN, and producing a 3 inch group!

Above is 50g & 51g of 2206H under the 170g SST

H414 is listed by ADI in their equivalents table as H414/H4350 level with AR2209, the powder referred to above with the line “you’ll never get enough in”

[secondtry]

H414 is listed by ADI in their equivalents table as H414/H4350 level with AR2209, the powder referred to above with the line “you’ll never get enough in”

That table is of equivalent burning rates, not equivalent bulk density.

H414 is a ball powder, should take up less room, and could be a good choice for my 220gn loads, which are about half way up the neck of a new case when using 2209/H4350 and a drop tube. Pity we can't get H414

[Gun Barrel Ecologist]

But you’re loading for a break action Secondtry, get a longer drop tube and seat your bullets long!

Did you ever get a QL prediction on your 51g of ‘08 load under a 200g NP?

[dchamp]

Are ADI Powders the only powder available in Australia? If not, what other powders are available? From my limited understanding H-414 & Winchester 760 are the same powder and both are manufactured in Australia...I think

[stokesrj]

The ball powders are manufactured in Florida.

[dchamp]

The ball powders are manufactured in Florida.

Oh Thanks, That's good to know.

[Gun Barrel Ecologist]

Are ADI Powders the only powder available in Australia? If not, what other powders are available? From my limited understanding H-414 & Winchester 760 are the same powder and both are manufactured in Australia...I think

I'm probably not the best one to ask, I have been using mainly ADI since they were known as Mulwex back in the '80s. I do recall loading with Winchester powder once because some one else gave me the powder and asked me to assemble the loads.

At present it is possible to get hold of Alliant, Hodgdon, Winchester and ADI at most of the bigger gunshops. We used to have an importer of Vihtavuori with a small distribution through bench rest suppliers / those in the know. I've also been given some IMR so we must have had it imported at some stage. The things that have always put me off are the fluctuations in availability and mark up due to shipping dangerous goods. Reloader 22 might give an extra 100fps but 1lb is $75 vs $53 for 500g of AR2217, and I know that if my local doesnt have it they just have to wait on a truck from Victoria, not a boat from the US. If I look at the web pages of two shops south of me one has a blank page under the Alliant heading, presumably signifying no stock and plenty of Hodgdon - but no H414 - the other shop has Bullseye, R15, R17, R22, 2400, and only LilGun from the Hodgdon range.

I think I also have a happy willingness to believe ADIs claims about temperature stability, but most of all have a philosophy of "use it or lose it" - if we didnt have ADI selling to the Australian public reloading could be quickly curtailed

[stokesrj]

If I were forced to choose only one powder manufacturer it would be ADI. I use ball powders only when forced to in case volume limited calibers. Sometimes I need the density of ball powders to achieve a performance objective or an accuracy node which can't be reached with extruded powders. An example of this is the .22 Hornet, there is no extruded powder that will even approach the performance of Lil"gun which is a ball powder.

It is demonstrably true that ADI powders are far more temp stable, there is no doubt in my mind. I've watched many who claimed it to be bunk, have their beliefs shattered when traveling the match circuits and when shooting in hot or cold conditions experiencing 12:00 and 6:00 hits in the 9 or even 8 ring at 600 yards with their first shot. In these Excellence in Competition Matches there are no sighters and those lost points mean a lost match. On an animal it would likely mean a wounding shot.

There is no magic powder, I used to believe there was, but the best practice I've found is to choose a Hodgdon Extreme (ADI) powder in the appropriate burn rate for the cartridge and bullet combination and then tune to the rifle. This works for most mainstream calibers, some exceptions in which I've found ball powders more effective are .22 Hornet, 454 Casull, and 458 Win Mag.