Neck Tension Progression

[Corjack]

A few years ago I started taking the expander button out of my dies. Problem was, now you have a lot of neck tension. Then I started buying full length neck bushing dies. That made a fairly noticeable increase in my precision when shooting. Was happy as a clam but still always scratched my head when a bullet went flying in a direction I had not intended. Started anealing, that also made a noticible improvement. Some advocate that you need an expander button to push irregularities from the inside of the neck to the outside. Tried a set of the Whidden buttons that come in a set. They sorta worked for me, but if you change brands or lots of brass you gotta switch out buttons. Ordered a Sinclair expander mandrel .001 smaller than bullet diameter. This again has made a noticeable improvement. Now some might say .001 is not enough bullet tension, but when you run the brass through an anealer, then size with a neck bushing, then run an expander mandrel, you get a certain amount of spring back. I figure if my bushing has got the neck .002 smaller than bullet diameter and I run a mandrel in it,after spring back I have probably around .0015 neck tension. The expander mandrel is doing more uniformity, and irregularity conditioning than any thing else. When using an arbor press to seat bullets you can feel way more than you can with a press. Now when seating bullets I do not have to sort out near as many that felt like they seated hard or gritty. All the 6.5x55 brass I Shot a few days ago where treaded this way except no arbor press die . Even when groups are not small, they are uniform.

[Ringo]

I have switched to a Sinclair expanding mandrel and have removed the sizing button from the dies. If I have a set of bushing dies in a particular caliber, if not I'll use my standard ones.

You can expect .001" springback when you expand, so .001" undersized works well for .002" tension. You can also get a turning mandrel that is .002" undersized and use that for expanding if you want more tension.

The mandrels from Century 21 (http://www.xxicsi.com) fit the Sinclair expander and are a little cheaper. From the looks of them, I believe they actually make the Sinclair version.

If you really want to control the tension as much as possible, you'll need to turn the necks. I've noticed that once I expand I can run the turner around the neck and there are definitely some high spots. Once I get uniformity on the neck then the bushings really shine.

[Corjack]

I have switched to a Sinclair expanding mandrel and have removed the sizing button from the dies. If I have a set of bushing dies in a particular caliber, if not I'll use my standard ones.

You can expect .001" springback when you expand, so .001" undersized works well for .002" tension. You can also get a turning mandrel that is .002" undersized and use that for expanding if you want more tension.

The mandrels from Century 21 (http://www.xxicsi.com) fit the Sinclair expander and are a little cheaper. From the looks of them, I believe they actually make the Sinclair version.

If you really want to control the tension as much as possible, you'll need to turn the necks. I've noticed that once I expand I can run the turner around the neck and there are definitely some high spots. Once I get uniformity on the neck then the bushings really shine.

I am going to draw the line at neck turning for now.

[Ringo]

I have switched to a Sinclair expanding mandrel and have removed the sizing button from the dies. If I have a set of bushing dies in a particular caliber I use them, if not I'll use my standard ones.

You can expect .001" springback when you expand, so .001" undersized works well for .002" tension. You can also get a turning mandrel that is .002" undersized and use that for expanding if you want more tension.

The mandrels from Century 21 (http://www.xxicsi.com) fit the Sinclair expander and are a little cheaper. From the looks of them, I believe they actually make the Sinclair version.

If you really want to control the tension as much as possible, you'll need to turn the necks. I've noticed that once I expand I can run the turner around the neck and there are definitely some high spots. Once I get uniformity on the neck then the bushings really shine.

[Corjack]

I have switched to a Sinclair expanding mandrel and have removed the sizing button from the dies. If I have a set of bushing dies in a particular caliber I use them, if not I'll use my standard ones.

You can expect .001" springback when you expand, so .001" undersized works well for .002" tension. You can also get a turning mandrel that is .002" undersized and use that for expanding if you want more tension.

The mandrels from Century 21 (http://www.xxicsi.com) fit the Sinclair expander and are a little cheaper. From the looks of them, I believe they actually make the Sinclair version.

If you really want to control the tension as much as possible, you'll need to turn the necks. I've noticed that once I expand I can run the turner around the neck and there are definitely some high spots. Once I get uniformity on the neck then the bushings really shine.

[Discogodfather]

I was always comfortable with .001" neck tension for the longest time but then started to have problems when, once and awhile, I would shoot a precision load that I came up with for a bolt gun in a precision gas gun. It was rare but for instance I sold a Ruger Precision rifle I had for years and had tons of a decent 6.5 creedmore rounds left over because the guy I sold it to didn't want to shoot it for some reason.

They weren't seated out too long so they worked in the gas gun, but more than a few times I noticed that if I loaded a round and had to eject it after a ceasefire had been called (without firing) the round would be pushed back into the case a bit. I would imagine this would be an issue with hunting as well.

Most gas gun people run anywhere from .002" to .005". Depending on the type of gas mechanism those rounds can get pushed around pretty strongly and they need the extra tension to make sure the bullet didn't slip around.

I started to look at some of the older rounds I had loaded up that ran .001" tension. Especially the ones I had neck turned. They in fact do slip the bullets around pretty bad, with only a light tap necessary to move it a thousandth or so. Not a big deal, but definitely something I had not been aware of.

So I split the difference and run around .0015"-.002" of neck tension now. It's enough to keep it from slipping and they can also go in my gas gun if they are short enough. No changes in accuracy or precision and it makes me feel better.

[Discogodfather]

Ah, one other interesting issue I just remembered about neck tension. I always do it dimensionally, meaning I measure it by measuring the inner and outer diameters and the bullet diameter. I have a friend that shoots F class and asked him what they do and he said they measure but judge the final tolerance by using a special bullet seater that actually measure (I guess hydraulically with a gauge) to actually quantify the pressure necessary to seat. If one goes in a little to hard or soft they put it to the side.

I normally don't go to benchrest levels of reloading but a few techniques I have taken from that discipline in terms of reloading have produced some very tangible results, so I have been interested in checking out that method. It doesn't add much more time but it requires an arbor press, I don't think they make them for regular presses.

[Corjack]

Ah, one other interesting issue I just remembered about neck tension. I always do it dimensionally, meaning I measure it by measuring the inner and outer diameters and the bullet diameter. I have a friend that shoots F class and asked him what they do and he said they measure but judge the final tolerance by using a special bullet seater that actually measure (I guess hydraulically with a gauge) to actually quantify the pressure necessary to seat. If one goes in a little to hard or soft they put it to the side.

I normally don't go to benchrest levels of reloading but a few techniques I have taken from that discipline in terms of reloading have produced some very tangible results, so I have been interested in checking out that method. It doesn't add much more time but it requires an arbor press, I don't think they make them for regular presses.

They are called a force pack. I use the arbor press without the force pack. you have such a better feel with the arbor press you can feel with your hand when one seats hard, and I just set it aside, and use it for practice. probably only set out 5-10 out of a hundred, but since using the expander mandrel, and some of my brass having been annealed twice in the AMP, it is closer to 5 out of a 100.

[SPEEDY]

I'm glad I only hunt and don't target shoot too, reloading is much simpler when the biggest concern is how the bullet will perform on game rather then little groups on paper.
There seems so many little things to do if you want match winning accuracy.
It's almost like it's not about the best shooter, it's a test of the best reloaders.

[Discogodfather]

I'm glad I only hunt and don't target shoot too, reloading is much simpler when the biggest concern is how the bullet will perform on game rather then little groups on paper.
There seems so many little things to do if you want match winning accuracy.
It's almost like it's not about the best shooter, it's a test of the best reloaders.

That's true but it also really comes down to the wind reading, which is a skill. The reloading stuff goes into the absurd in my opinion too (just check out the scales there are using) and reloading during the competition has always struck me as the height of silly. Imagine military or hunting "field reloads".

The benchrest crowd do know accuracy and precision though down to a science, and for me it's about making the most accurate ammo without spending too much time. It's funny because the PRS tactical shooters guys are constantly looking to the benchrest guys to get an edge in competition, including taking their techniques and gear.

Seems like everyone is moving to 6mm BR recently in PRS, and that made me really laugh. Can you imagine an old benchrest dude walking up to a tactical guy 5 years ago and saying "um, maybe you guys should use 6mm BR?". They would have laughed and said that was an old guy with an oxygen tanks caliber and belonged in a 50 pound rifle.

It's similar with the ELR crowd, one of the K02M champions last year was an F class guy. Amazing amount of skill to shoot strings that fast!

[stokesrj]

It’s always a test of the best shooter. It may help to have superior reloading and load Development skills but in the end the best shooter still wins, always.

[Joe338ST]

It’s always a test of the best shooter. It may help to have superior reloading and load Development skills but in the end the best shooter still wins, always.

When I started reloading my own ammunition I read Nick Harvey's book "Reloading Manual" and reloaded for years. Then I realised there was more to it than basic reloading if you wanted more accuracy, and I read a few books to understand the theory and techniques. The best book I've read has been Tony Boyer's book -The Book of Rifle Accuracy. The book is well structured and presented in an easy to read and understand manner. The guy was a shooting champion for years and it was amazing he decided to share all his secrets in his book. The link is www.rifleaccuracybook.com

Yes it is always the best shooter that will often win, but case prep, load development, reloading techniques, and sometimes a "freak" barrel has a lot to help the best shooter to win.....

[SPEEDY]

I thought about neck turning and other stuff But it just seasms a lot of effort and set up cost for no practical gain for a hunter.
But the one key thing I've found in all their little tips and tricks is uniformity, it's all about making every shot as consistent as the last.
But then I don't bump shoulders back or do anything more then a rough trim, yet I can appreciate what people put in to make the best rounds possible.

[Discogodfather]

I thought about neck turning and other stuff But it just seasms a lot of effort and set up cost for no practical gain for a hunter.
But the one key thing I've found in all their little tips and tricks is uniformity, it's all about making every shot as consistent as the last.
But then I don't bump shoulders back or do anything more then a rough trim, yet I can appreciate what people put in to make the best rounds possible.

I agree, it has some limited value for me. Still kind of on the fence. Elmer made me a 6x47mm match barrel for my LRS guns, and he had a .269 neck reamer. I thought it would be cool to get into neck turning and try it out, but it's another skill that has to be mastered. I made a complete mess of it the first couple of times around. Just using the tool is a learning process. It reminded me of how, when I took a machining class in college, the first couple lathe runs I did looked like a dog had chewed the part up. Meanwhile, a master machinist could produce a mirror finish using the exact same lathe.

After using stages of bushings to size 6.5 lapua down to 6, I have to admit it came in a little handy for all the stress put on the neck. There were always little imperfections after the neck down that neck turning did seem to fix so I could get some good performance on the first firing.

[stokesrj]

In my experiences, the neck turning, primer pocket uniforming, flash hole deburring, sorting cases by weight, sorting bullets by weight and the rest that goes along with it are good for fine tuning a bench rest gun that already shoots .200" groups at 100 yards and improving that to .189" groups and not much else. It absolutely won't help a gun and load combination that is only shooting 1 MOA or even 1/2 MOA. So for hunting it is a waste of time. But I still do it anyway some times.