Trump - ITAR Gonski?

A place to discuss regulations, or the over regulation in most case, that our members have to deal with in their respective countries. Hopefully discussion will lead to more rules based on common sense, rather than fears by the government.

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Trump - ITAR Gonski?

Post by mchughcb » Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:15 am

So Trump signed off on USA departing the arms treaty.

So what does this mean for the ITAR?



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Re: Trump - ITAR Gonski?

Post by SPEEDY » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:07 am

I'm hoping it means I can buy a stock or anything else gun related that's over $100usd.

I kick around on shotgun world and some of the people there hate trump so much, bloody trap shooting democrats that think all they need is double so that's all anyone should need.
It's a cross between frustration and amusement to listen to them.
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Re: Trump - ITAR Gonski?

Post by Discogodfather » Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:10 pm

I'm not sure they are related, I have been waiting for ITAR changes and certain items to be removed from the USMIL list for over a year now. I think the arms treaty more has to do with how large companies based in the USA sell arms to other international customers.

It's so complicated I have found no one really understands how it all works except a few lawyers and industry people who deal with it directly.

I think what we, being small time people trying to get some barrels and sell a few small items, are looking for is the change in the USMIL classifications with regards to ITAR.

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Re: Trump - ITAR Gonski?

Post by John1911.com » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:58 pm

Nothing to do with ITAR. This was a UN ground level play for a new round of regulations. And once the infrastructure was in place, conceivably the volume could be turned up by bureaucrats later.

And frankly while we are on it, I think the entire charade of doing it at the NRAAM was pretty low-rent.

I understand that Trump isn't a gun-guy himself but instead a NYC businessman. And I am pretty tired of hearing about how, "But…but Don, Jr. is pro-gun." I'm over the optics game and Don Jr.

Show up at NRA and give us a commitment that you're going to push national CCW reciprocity. Drop the 1989 Import ban. Do something about 922r. Maybe allow gun sales from China? Or maybe getting rid of the "sporting uses" import crap.

I don't know what in the F. is going in inside the West Wing on this subject, but I do know they are F'ing up badly.

And miss be with the, "Muh 2020 reelection so after" nonsense. Guess what happens after that? Congressional midterms. After that it's lame-duck nonsense.

Regards,
Marky

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Re: Trump - ITAR Gonski?

Post by Discogodfather » Thu May 02, 2019 3:17 pm

Yeah, I agree, Trump also directed the ATF to reclassify the definition of semi-auto firearms, which was the most disturbing thing to occur in a long time. That means another anti-gun president could do the same, and re-classify things in an executive fashion that is far far worse.

Then there is row that occurred with NRA brass over the last week, with Oliver North (not a guy I like at all) trying to get Wayne Lapierre to step down. Really embarrassing stuff about financial impropriety.

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Re: Trump - ITAR Gonski?

Post by John1911.com » Sat May 04, 2019 4:29 pm

Department of State & Department of the Treasury have had a fair amount of latitude on deeming gun regs since 1968. The motive or means to do has very little to do with Trump. Even though I think 68 and 86 should be repealed. Daddy Bush did same things with 89 import bans and China bans. BATFE changing the rules on importing barrels is another.

It all need to be rolled back.

But since you brought up the NRA, I'll go there. I was also there at the show.

Wayne did a great job after Newtown. His going on TV in a national address to make the argument for our side really stopped a lot of BS from happening. Note, this was under President Obama. I think it will go down as the hi-water mark of his tenure.

However…the NRA is in big trouble. And having a single guy basically run the show for 30 years isn't healthy for any organization. The voting members don't really control the NRA board. And too many of the NRA board are Fudd's who are selling us down the river. Just look at Marion Hammer who is back on the board once again. Almost unbelievable if it wasn't the NRA.

Now let me tell you what I saw on the ground: All around the show people were discussing Wayne and the latest drama. And I didn't run into a single person who was actually happy about Wayne. Walking into the show, you see PRO-GUN activists protesting outside handing out flyers for alternative gun-rights groups. More than one of these people were saying some pretty damning things about Wayne.

There are other things about how the board operates, that I can't prove. But damn if it doesn't look bad.

The hardcore NRA leadership is NOT in the same mental space as you or I. They don't care about NFA items. They don't care about import / export issues. They don't care about due process for the least affluent of it's members. They don't care about modern military weapons. And I am convinced if we leave these issues their hands, your grand children will likely own guns in the same way folks own guns in the UK.

I for one am not one of the hyperbolic anti-NRA folks. Actually I am 2 or 3 levels above Life. Whatever Patron is. I know it got me a special ribbon and some extra handshakes from the organizers in Indy last week. But gong forward, I am looking at alternative groups very closely. I will not being giving up my NRA membership. And I even gave them a small amount last week.

But going forward I am more interested in supporting a group that wants to take rights back. Not constantly giving them up under the guise of "reasonable"

Regards,
Marky
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Last edited by John1911.com on Sat May 04, 2019 4:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Trump - ITAR Gonski?

Post by John1911.com » Sat May 04, 2019 4:30 pm

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Re: Trump - ITAR Gonski?

Post by SPEEDY » Sat May 04, 2019 11:40 pm

In any organization that is member based has to have all of its members voted in by it's members, be it a 1 year or 5 year term them members have to have control of the direction they want it to take.
One man in charge for 30 years is very bad, that creates an attitude of this is mine, not I'm running this for our members.
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Re: Trump - ITAR Gonski?

Post by Discogodfather » Sun May 05, 2019 4:28 pm

I like the NRA as an organization and I really like the NRA-ILA and our local NRA group, the CRPA here in California. Like Marky, I question the national DC brass. It's been a long long time with Wayne and the money seems to be a big issue. NRA wasn't always an individual gun rights organization, quite the contrary, until the 1970's. Wayne did get Trump in there and got two Scotus judges, so I can't be angry at Wayne that much. But it might be time to let some new blood in.

NRA-ILA got a big win in California a month ago where a Federal Judge named Beneitez in the 9th circuit literally declared unconstitutional our 20 year old standard capacity magazine ban (everything is limited to 10 rounds now). For 1 week as the attorney general (a virulent anti-gun political pawn) maneuvered to get a stay on the order. During that week, we canvased the net and got the word out on every social media and internet forum that obtaining standard capacity magazines was legal. Big companies like Palmetto and Brownells promoted the selling and didn't raise prices, actually lowered them in some cases.

All in all millions of magazines poured into the state in a week. It strengthened the legal argument of common use and almost assured that the case (called Duncan V Bercerra) will get to the supreme court at some point. We called it "freedom week".

All these came from the tireless efforts of the NRA-ILA and CRPA and our lawyers here called Michel and Associates. Biggest win in CA gun politics in a lifetime of losses.

I like the rhetoric of GOA and other organizations better but I don't see their legal and grassroots networks, or acts that lead to some real change. Sometimes I am afraid I am giving them money for them to tell me what I want to hear.

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Re: Trump - ITAR Gonski?

Post by SPEEDY » Sun May 05, 2019 9:50 pm

I only hope the NRA stay a strong, you are going to need them more then ever in years to come.
Recent events accross the world have been driving restrictions over firearms ownership, only a few countries have done anything positive.
Even then the gains were small, it's the death of a thousand cuts and if we let them nick us over and over then firearms ownership will be dead.
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