Firearms restrictions

A place to discuss regulations, or the over regulation in most case, that our members have to deal with in their respective countries. Hopefully discussion will lead to more rules based on common sense, rather than fears by the government.

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icebug
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Re: Firearms restrictions

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thechamp wrote: Now back to my original post.... The positive side of that situation is that he didn't buy them from another individual - which would give the antis another argument against their 'gun show' loophole which would prohibit me giving a gun to my own kid without jumping through the government's hoops. Or giving it to my brother or my best friend. The background check rings pretty hollow when people use a gun or any other weapon in anger to kill or hurt someone and they have no past incidents of anything that would raise a red flag. How does the vaunted background check explain those situations? How do you detect 'first time offenders' before they become 'first time offenders'? How many people's rights are violated in the process?
Now I will bother you guys again with the examples from my country.
As you've probably noticed, law on guns is pretty strict here, it has it's good and bad sides - as every law on this planet.
Giving your firearm to your brother, neighbor or best friend? Not possible UNLESS they have a valid firearms permit. Period.
If they do posses one, you still need to give them a copy of your permit which states that the weapon belongs to you.
If you borrow your firearm to a person that is not in possession of a valid permit, you are risking all of your guns (forever) + fine.

Background check is not only a police background check. I didn't mention that a firearms permit expires every 5 years, after which you have to renew it. In order to renew it, you need to pass a medical exam in a country certified medical facility.
Even before getting a first firearm, you have to go through the same thing + you need to bring a certified statement from your MD that you have or had no psychological disorders in the past (includes alcoholism or any drug addiction).
Beside that, you must provide a document to your local police station, which states the name and address of your MD, giving the police a option to do that kind of "background check" as well.

To make a long story short, if you give your firearm to somebody that is not certified to possess one - you'll be held accountable.
If your MD gives you a false certificate that you have/had no psychological disorders and you commit a crime involving your firearm - he/she will be held accountable as well.

As I said, the law on guns is pretty strict over here, but you might pick up something good from it.
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longrider
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Re: Firearms restrictions

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I am so very grateful to have been born in the USA. I have experienced tremendous freedoms for 60 years which are very difficult to quantify to others who have not known this fresh air.

Perhaps it is why we intervened at Normandy. Perhaps that is why myself and so many others in this Country have sworn an oath to protect that historcal document that limits government and Constitutes the basis for the indidual/collective liberties of our people.

Perhaps it is why I would rather die today to retain this way of life for the future of my children and grandchildren than to do nothing and watch our Nation continue to listen to International reason.

It seems that the one thing that we never learn from history...Is to learn from history. Previous generations time and again gave their lives, many of them only teenagers to grant me and my family such opportunity. Freedom is not free...and yes, "Give me liberty or give me death."

Once you have tasted the sweetness of freedom, nothing ever satisfies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEOets_L7vg
Brad

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icebug
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Re: Firearms restrictions

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Has the fresh air of your tremendous freedoms been always fulfilled with safety?
The same freedom can be sweet for one, but also can be very bitter for another.
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longrider
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Re: Firearms restrictions

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No sir. I believe I made that clear. I have lost both friends and relatives in this effort - and of course many others not known to me.

Also, not personal to you-just my opinion on open forum, over and out.

Done.

Finished.
Brad

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Re: Firearms restrictions

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longrider wrote:I am so very grateful to have been born in the USA. I have experienced tremendous freedoms for 60 years which are very difficult to quantify to others who have not known this fresh air.

Perhaps it is why we intervened at Normandy. Perhaps that is why myself and so many others in this Country have sworn an oath to protect that historcal document that limits government and Constitutes the basis for the indidual/collective liberties of our people.

Perhaps it is why I would rather die today to retain this way of life for the future of my children and grandchildren than to do nothing and watch our Nation continue to listen to International reason.

It seems that the one thing that we never learn from history...Is to learn from history. Previous generations time and again gave their lives, many of them only teenagers to grant me and my family such opportunity. Freedom is not free...and yes, "Give me liberty or give me death."

Once you have tasted the sweetness of freedom, nothing ever satisfies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEOets_L7vg

:clap: :clap: Well said. Thanks for linking Patrick Henry's speech. Were it not for America and it's people the rest of the world would most certainly look different today. There is a quote attributed to Japanese Admiral Yamamoto that he would never have invaded America due to there being a gun behind every blade of grass. Historians now claim of course that there is no proof he ever said that. Point is though that the last time another country's troops did invade American soil was a very long time ago. At no time during WWI or WWII did any foreign troops invade this country. My suspicion is that the concept of invading a country where most of the citizens were armed wasn't lost on the commanders of those troops. We certainly played havoc on the British troops by sniping them from the trees, bushes, etc. Americans may not have invented guerilla warfare but we've proven to be pretty damn good at it.

I believe this pic sums things up as well as anything. Anyone who thinks that guns can be curtailed in this country is clueless. The minute you clamp down on legally available guns for the general public you will see the smugglers diversify to start bringing in thousands of cheaply made AK47s and other junk from Asia. The underground/underworld will be extremely well armed and the people will have had their hands tied. As successful as we've been at stopping the smuggling of illegal drugs what kind of idiot thinks we can or could prevent illegal guns from being brought in?
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ROdell

Re: Firearms restrictions

Post by ROdell »

icebug wrote:Has the fresh air of your tremendous freedoms been always fulfilled with safety?
The same freedom can be sweet for one, but also can be very bitter for another.
Safety ins't one of the guaranteed rights. The tradeoff is a tricky one, obviously.

There's also the requirement for personal responsibility and accountability, something we are beginning to lose.

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Re: Firearms restrictions

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rodell wrote:
icebug wrote:Has the fresh air of your tremendous freedoms been always fulfilled with safety?
The same freedom can be sweet for one, but also can be very bitter for another.
Safety ins't one of the guaranteed rights. The tradeoff is a tricky one, obviously.

There's also the requirement for personal responsibility and accountability, something we are beginning to lose.
Exactly what I was trying to say. Common sense. :clap:
But that also applies to Government and gun dealers, not only the public.
Guns are legal and have to stay that way. BUT only for those who have common sense and good intentions.
If you're a known criminal who already served for a couple of years and you're trying to buy a semi-auto pistol, should you be able to buy one legally?
IMHO you shouldn't be. You mentioned learning from the history..."The wolf changes its fur, but not its nature".
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Re: Firearms restrictions

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Couple more that fit the occasion.
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Re: Firearms restrictions

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Texas teachers leading the way. Better to be prepared for the worst and at least have a fighting chance. BTW to those not familiar with the Texas Concealed Carry law need to know that if you have a Concealed Carry permit you do not stand in line at the State Capital and you're not stopped and checked for anything. You walk right in with your gun. And don't forget the Governor has his as well, along with a whole bunch of our legislators are armed while conducting business at the state offices. :D

400 Texas teachers signed up for Concealed Handgun Classes within 24 hours.


SCHERTZ — Middle school teacher Kim Williams traveled from Houston to cash in on Saturday's free concealed handgun licensing course offered to educators after the mass shootings at a Connecticut elementary.

“I feel the need to be proactive,” Williams, 38, said during a break in the 10-hour class at LoneStar Handgun.

“I'm entrusted to the care and safety of over 100 students. I want to be prepared, if and when things go that way,” said the long-time employee of the Cypress-Fairbanks Independent School District.

The local firm's owner, Josh Felker, advertised the class Dec. 17, three days after the Sandy Hook Elementary School shootings. All 400 available slots were booked within 24 hours, Felker said.

“We're trying to educate the educators and get forward momentum in the Legislature to allow teachers and any other concealed handgun license holder into schools or any other public place,” the former Army Ranger said Saturday. “Gun-free zones are not gun-free to criminals.”

The slaughter of 20 students and six educators in Newtown by Adam Peter Lanza, who then took his own life, has stoked the political debate across America on gun control and campus security.

On Dec. 19 President Barack Obama appointed a gun control task force to draft measures that are likely to include tighter regulations on certain weapons.

Two days later, the National Rifle Association countered with a call for more firepower on school campuses to deter and defeat bad guys.

Gov. Rick Perry is among state leaders also advocating the arming of educators and extending the reach of licensed gun carriers to school campuses.

The carnage in Connecticut also has prompted citizens like Jesse Quiroga, 53, to reassess their security, both at home and in the workplace.

“The police can't be everywhere, so I figured I should at least be prepared,” said Quiroga, a hospital nurse in San Antonio who paid $30 on Saturday to attend a self-defense course on how to survive a mass shooting.

The instructor, Mike Hanson of Elite Edge Training, demonstrated ways to avoid being victimized by predatory criminals, how to fend off an attacker, and what to do if caught in the gun sights of a madman.

Overcoming the initial terror is key, he said, allowing would-be victims to then find a protective place, pinpoint the threat and determine the best route out of harm's way.

“When people hear about things like Sandy Hook and the theater shooting in Colorado, it makes them scared,” Hanson, 42, said before the three-hour lesson in Helotes. “Knowing information about how to respond makes them feel safer.”

His class included Lisa Holloman and her daughters, Chelsea and Lauren, who both attend Virginia Tech, site of a 2007 massacre that ranks as the nation's deadliest school shooting, claiming 32 victims.

“I'd rather understand how to do this than be unprepared,” said Chelsea Holloman, 21.

“Just being a college student, it's important to know defense skills,” said Lauren Holloman, 19.

Across town, before heading to the shooting range Saturday with the class that included 26 teachers, Felker said permitting educators to pack heat would deter potential attackers.

“The criminal element goes where guns are less likely to be,” he said.

Gun class student Rita Sisneros said the Sandy Hook attack led her to re-examine a recent incident at the University of Texas Health Science Center, where she works.

The week before the school shooting, Sisneros' co-workers called security about a man who she thought acted strangely while asking to see a dean and students.

It took a while for help to arrive, leaving Sisneros uneasy in retrospect about what may have occurred if the man — who eventually was escorted out without incident — had meant anyone harm.

“I used to think about safety at home,” said Sisneros, 45, but now, “I want a gun on me.”

zeke@express-news.net


http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_ ... z2GWPljyIa

ROdell

Re: Firearms restrictions

Post by ROdell »

icebug wrote:
rodell wrote:
icebug wrote:Has the fresh air of your tremendous freedoms been always fulfilled with safety?
The same freedom can be sweet for one, but also can be very bitter for another.
Safety ins't one of the guaranteed rights. The tradeoff is a tricky one, obviously.

There's also the requirement for personal responsibility and accountability, something we are beginning to lose.
Exactly what I was trying to say. Common sense. :clap:
But that also applies to Government and gun dealers, not only the public.
Guns are legal and have to stay that way. BUT only for those who have common sense and good intentions.
If you're a known criminal who already served for a couple of years and you're trying to buy a semi-auto pistol, should you be able to buy one legally?
IMHO you shouldn't be. You mentioned learning from the history..."The wolf changes its fur, but not its nature".
According to our laws, in the absence of a court order, you can't buy one from a dealer. There is nothing to stop you from buying someone's personal property in most states. This is what some refer to as the "gun show loophole".

To require a background check that includes the details of the firearm amounts to registration, something that many in the US find unpalatable.

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Re: Firearms restrictions

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rodell wrote:
To require a background check that includes the details of the firearm amounts to registration, something that many in the US find unpalatable.

Once the location and ownership is documented the next step is confiscation. Those who are anti-2nd Amendment have openly stated this many times. Others have pointed out as well that since America has not documented the transfer of guns over the past 200+ years that confiscation would be very difficult if not impossible since there is no record of who owns what. The day we give up this right we are doomed.

BTW on another note Facebook is attempting to rewrite history by way of censorship. The leftist (Kalifornia owned and operated) organization has determined that quoting Ghandhi is against their rules and violates 'community guidelines'. The quote by Ghandhi was where he stated in his autobiography:

"Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest." - Mohandas Gandhi, an Autobiography, page 446.

It didn't set well with the censors at Facebook. Here is the article for those interested to read in it's entirety:


Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/038484_Gandh ... z2GZ3JzYAH

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Re: Firearms restrictions

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Now, I don't quite understand how it works in your country.
But, supposedly that your Government comes up with a new law which says that every citizen who owns a firearm must register it and a huge database of firearms in the USA is made.
Would that mean that the 2nd amendment of your Constitution would be void?!
Somehow I thought that the Constitution is the highest legal document of a certain country and all the laws have to be in accordance with it.
Unless they change the Constitution, which is not so easy to happen, there should be nothing for you to worry about.
Just my thoughts...we don't have those kind of problems in my country.
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Re: Firearms restrictions

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Many here probably aren't familiar with what this administration has been doing in arming itself and it's foot soldiers. The writer here has quoted the information that has been gleaned from purchase orders issued by the government.

'Guns are bad!' CounterThink cartoon reveals hypocrisy of government gun confiscation schemes

NaturalNews) While the U.S. government is desperately attempting to disarm the American population by rolling out Adolf Hitler-style gun control, it is simultaneously arming itself to the teeth, buying up 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition and now stockpiling it at ammo depot stations around the country.

The hypocrisy of it all is stunning. While screaming, "GUNS ARE BAD!" to American farmers, ranchers and citizens, the government is buying up billions of dollars worth of guns and ammo itself. This isn't ammo to be used in a foreign theater of war, by the way, it's ammo that can only be used domestically, against the American people. (The hollow point ammo violates international war treaties and so cannot be used in international war actions.)

To help us all visualize the hypocrisy in the government's gun control schemes, I came up with our latest Counterthink cartoon.
Guns-Are-Bad-600.jpg
Feel free to post this cartoon on your own website, but please give credit to the original source, which is NaturalNews.com / Counterthink.com.

In addition to purchasing 450 million rounds of hollow point .40 caliber ammo, the U.S. government has also purchased:

• Over one million rounds of hollow-point .223 rifle ammo
• Over half a million rounds of non-hollow-point .223 rifle ammo
• 220,000 rounds of 12 gauge shotgun #7 ammo (target ammo)
• Over 200,000 rounds of 12 gauge shotgun #00 buckshot ammo (tactical anti-personnel ammo)
• 66,000 rounds of 12 gauge shotgun slugs (tactical anti-personnel, anti-vehicle rounds)
• Over two million rounds of hollow-point .357 Sig JHP (hollow-point) pistol ammo (anti-personnel)
• Over four million rounds of .40 S&W JHP (hollow-point) pistol ammo (anti-personnel)
• Over 60,000 rounds of .308 match grade anti-personnel sniper rounds (BTHP)
• Plus, hundreds of thousands of additional rounds of .38 special, .45 auto, 9mm, 7.62x39 (AK rifle) ammo, and others.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/038485_gun_c ... z2GZB5gHkp




Another link to the sales of AR 15s, ammo, parts, etc. The shelves are bare and people are lined up waiting to buy:
http://www.naturalnews.com/038459_gun_g ... dment.html

Couple of quotes from the article....

"And one retailer, http://www.Brownells.com said that in one 72-hour period last week, they sold more ammo magazines than they usually sell in three and a half YEARS."



"Ten million more guns in the hands of honest, law-abiding Americans

The FBI instant background check system (NICS), which performs background checks on all commercial gun buyers across America, has been stressed to the breaking point. It has already experienced outages over the past 10 days, and even when it's online, it's registering the most intense period of firearm purchases in the history of America.

Official numbers are not yet available, but by my estimates, in the last ten days alone over 10 million firearms were purchased in America, and over a billion rounds of ammunition were taken home and put away by U.S. gun owners."


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Re: Firearms restrictions

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icebug wrote:Now, I don't quite understand how it works in your country.
But, supposedly that your Government comes up with a new law which says that every citizen who owns a firearm must register it and a huge database of firearms in the USA is made.
Would that mean that the 2nd amendment of your Constitution would be void?!
Somehow I thought that the Constitution is the highest legal document of a certain country and all the laws have to be in accordance with it.
Unless they change the Constitution, which is not so easy to happen, there should be nothing for you to worry about.
Just my thoughts...we don't have those kind of problems in my country.

I can't really answer your question as to what would happen but my guess is it wouldn't be pretty. I'm sure a lot of people would roll over and go with the flow. But I certainly wouldn't want to be a government agent going out there to confiscate or round up those who didn't. There is a blurb that has gone around the internet here from time to time claiming that Wisconsin alone has 600,000 hunters who own guns. I have no idea what the number in Texas would be but it would be quite substantial. It could get very interesting if it ever came to that.

For the time being though the US House of Representatives is controlled by the Republican party and the Chairman of the Jurisprudence Committee that would have to bring a bill out to the overall house for a vote has already said there will be no bill coming from his committee. Being he's a Texan I tend to take him at his word. :lol: He has stated that there are no laws that would have prevented this incident or incidents like this and he is correct. No one can point at any law and say it would work when the killer violated approximately 20 laws to do his deed.

Those who do not believe in the 2nd Amendment will never stop their quest to disarm America. They were able to get the 'assault weapons ban' passed in 1994 but Congress had the foresight to write the bill with a 10 year sunset. The irony of the whole thing was that the same guns were still manufactured during the ban that were made prior to the ban! This was and is lost on the anti-gunners who claim the ban actually reduced crime. The guns were just manufactured without some of the features named in the bill that legally made them a restricted item. AR15s were still sold. AK47s were still sold. Plus all the guns that were in the hands of the people continued to be sold and traded without restrictions. Millions of high capacity magazines were bought and sold during the ban. No new ones could be made, imported, etc., during the ban. Law enforcement officers could still buy high capacity mags for their weapons with a letterhead that stated the purchase would be for duty use. Those mags were marked that they were for LE use but they could then be sold to civilians when the gun was traded in or the officer sold it to someone after buying a new model.


Also not lost on me is the fact that the Chinese government has come out in favor of the president using the Sandy Hook incident to disarm America. We here fully understand what the Chinese people are subjected to by their Communist leadership. Thanks but no thanks.

Communist Chinese Government Calls For No Delay For U.S. Gun Control

Paul Joseph Watson: The Communist Chinese government, via its state-run media front Xinhua, has called for Americans to be disarmed, arguing that the Sandy Hook school massacre demands “no delay for U.S. gun control.”

Xinhua is virtually the press agency for the Communist Chinese government. The organization, “is subordinate to the State Council and reports to the Communist Party of China’s Propaganda and Public Information Departments.”

In other words, Xinhua represents the pinnacle of Chinese state-run media. Whatever is printed in its editorial pages represents the opinion of the ruling Communist Party leaders.

The article calls on Obama to exploit the tragedy to push his gun control agenda, adding that his lame duck situation represents “the best position to promote it,” while blaming the National Rifle Association for curtailing previous attempts to regulate firearms in the United States.

Noting that after previous mass shootings efforts to impose gun control measures “disappointingly always fail,” the editorial expresses the desire that the “gunman’s cruelty and evil may provide a strong momentum and broader public support for the restart of gun control efforts.”

The article adds that Barack Obama should begin “to make preparation for a protracted war,” with a massive political cost if he wants to eviscerate the second amendment.

As Brandon Darby points out, “The current Chinese government, the communist People’s Republic of China, was established in a revolution led by Mao Zedong, who killed an estimated 40-70 million people with starvation, executions, and re-education camps.”

Indeed, it was Mao himself who said “political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.”

This should provide a hint as to what happens when tyrants are unleashed upon a disarmed population, and why China’s call to repeal the Second Amendment rings chillingly hollow.

Appearing on the nationally syndicated Alex Jones Show today, former Congressman and NRA board member Bob Barr called for members of Congress to speak out against the Chinese government, expressing his outrage than an authoritarian regime would lecture the United States about the rights of its people.

If you want to get a taste of how a state treats citizens who refuse to submit to big government tyranny yet who are completely disarmed, look no further than China itself.

As we reported earlier this year, a villager in northern China attempting to resist a forced government relocation by remaining on his land was brutally crushed to death by a road flattening truck on the orders of a Chinese government official.

China is routinely rocked by riots staged by residents furious at the arbitrary theft of their land by the state, which under the Communist system claims that the government owns all land and that private property rights are non-existent. However, the state-owned media ensures that news of the protests does not reach a national audience.

Since the state has all the guns, the idea of government thugs arbitrarily kicking people off their own property is a routine occurrence in China. The kind of massive land grabs and forced relocations that occur almost every day in China is not a situation that has yet been visited on America primarily because Americans have the second amendment with which to protect their private property rights.

A law was recently passed in Indiana which legalizes the use of deadly force – including against a police officer – in the event of an unlawful intrusion.

The Pentagon’s recent geopolitical pivot made it clear that China was the primary military threat to the United States. In addition, Chinese military and Communist Party leaders have repeatedly indicated that they are preparing for a future war with the United States. Others have threatened to launch a nuclear attack against America during any potential confrontation over Taiwan.

In this context, it’s noteworthy that Japan’s Admiral Yamamoto refused to invade the United States during world war two because he feared the fact that there “would be a rifle behind every blade of grass,” therefore it’s not surprising that the Communist Chinese regime would also want to see the American people disarmed.

Concerns that China was also interfering in U.S. media were also heard after MGM was forced to delay the re-make of Red Dawn for two years after Chinese state media complained that depicting the invading villains as Chinese “would demonize their state and its citizens.” The bad guys were changed to North Koreans and entire portions of the film had to be revised.

It’s unprecedented to see foreigners like the Communist Chinese and others like Piers Morgan advising Obama on ways to exploit the school shooting in order to disarm the American people.

China can keep its forced relocations, its summary execution of political dissidents, its mobile execution vans, and its draconian police state. Americans will keep their guns, no matter how many times the Communist Chinese government – and all its political allies within America – talk down the second amendment.

Read more at http://marketdailynews.com/2012/12/21/c ... XlBUzKT.99

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Re: Firearms restrictions

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The Hollywood whores joined with the Obama regime to ban guns. Yet who glorifies death and killing? Who profits from it?






Few comments from another site concerning the Hollywood elitist:


kipling • 19 hours ago−

Yes, I demand a plan. Better yet, I have a plan.

First, I demand that all "gun free zones" be abolished. Gun free zones are simply target rich zones where a mass murder can go and find unarmed victims.

Second, I demand that all elected officials and federal bureaucrats send their children to public schools. Then perhaps we can get serious about the reform of public education. For too long the political elitists in our country have created a public school system that all too often resembles a stockyard and then exempted themselves from it at taxpayer expense.

Third, I demand that David Gregory be arrested for violating existing gun laws. And, if some bureaucrat did give him permission, I demand that person be fired and also arrested.

Fourth, I demand that someone label the celebrities in that video because I could not tell you who 3/4 of those people were in the first place. Most of them look like they came from the local homeless shelter. Did many of them have credits like "Bystander #3"? I also demand that all those "celebrities" reveal whether or not their children go to public schools. My hope is that most of those "celebrities" have chosen not to reproduce but just in case I would like to know how far their hypocrisy abounds.

Fifth, I demand that all members of Hollywood go back to Literature 101 and study such concepts as plot and character development. I know this one is a little off topic but it is my plan.



ss396> OhioHistorian • 9 hours ago−

Ambassador Stevens did "demand a plan". But it got in the way of the narrative, so it was never enacted. Remember, too, that Columbine, Virginia Tech, Aurora, Newtown - all these places had a plan. Part of that plan was declaring them as gun-free zones. Can you liberals tell me which part of those plans failed? Can you?

Liberals - it's always the image, never the reality; never the costs.



veritaseequitas • 12 hours ago−

Maybe if the Hollowood morons who made this video were hit smack in the middle of their pocketbooks by being banned from making violent, trashy movies, they would shut their moronic traps.

What a bunch of phony baloney. They have their knickers in a twist over what guns are doing to children and yet they parade their drug and drink addled, sex soaked, abortion loving, homosexual loving, multiple divorce lives, around in front of the nation's children and that is perfectly ok.

A bunch of hypocrites spewing a bunch of swill.




Tbone • 11 hours ago−

How about a ban on showing any violent deaths in movies and TVs? You know, like smoking.

I wonder how many of these Hollywood slugs are against killing children BEFORE they are born?




irishgirl • 7 hours ago−

And as usual, these celebrities' hypocricy is breathtaking. And typical.

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