Blaser R8 vs Tikka for Long Range Shooting an Hunting

A place to discuss subjects related to those who prefer to take those longer shots. Sponsored by European Long Range Hunting and EuroOptic

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Re: Blaser R8 vs Tikka for Long Range Shooting an Hunting

Post by stokesrj » Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:32 am

The Tika T3 is a great utilitarian rifle but it is not in the same class as a Blaser. They make good ones that shoot very straight and they make bad ones that don't. The design has a unique recoil lug that is bedded to the stock and then floats in a tenon cut in the bottom of the action. When everything works it can work well, but when it doesn't it is a bear to fix. Glass bedding is not straightforward like it is with a Remington model 700 but requires special tricks due to the two escutcheons that the action screws (king screws) are fitted to. This effectively makes three recoil lugs that all have to be relieved to the front and make solid contact to the rear bearing surface at the same time with the same pressure. This can become a maintenance issue in that if anything changes with repeated recoil it can affect point of impact and barrel harmonics.

A Blaser can be more accurate than an individual T3 or the opposite can be true, both require load tuning for optimum accuracy. As an example of this I can make my R8 6.5 Creedmoor shoot 100 yard 2" groups or 0.2" groups using the same bullet by varying seating depth, neck tension, and powder charge. So if an individual T3 shoots better than an individual R8 it is not a very meaningful indication of the inherent accuracy of the two rifles.

The original posting was regarding Long Range Accuracy which to me means it needs to be sub .5 MOA accurate. So either rifle is capable of this accuracy, but neither can do so without load development and troubleshooting any accuracy inhibiting problems. I believe that on average you will see better accuracy from the R8. I personally have achieved far superior accuracy with the R8 than with any of the Tikas I have owned. I have not owned a T3 that would meet the Balser Buds MOA ALL DAY Challenge. I do have an R8 that has done it multiple times.


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Re: Blaser R8 vs Tikka for Long Range Shooting an Hunting

Post by SPEEDY » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:27 am

A lot of talk about the R8 but what about the R93.

They are neither gone or forgotten, and easily capable of doing anything the R8 can.
Actually are they still making barrels for the LRS2?
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Re: Blaser R8 vs Tikka for Long Range Shooting an Hunting

Post by Twinn » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:02 am

In my opinion the R93 shoots tighter than the R8.

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Re: Blaser R8 vs Tikka for Long Range Shooting an Hunting

Post by stokesrj » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:30 am

I didn't find any difference between the R8 and R93, I had only the 6.5X55 common between both platforms. They preferred different loads and required tuning to shoot their best but both shot well under .5 MOA with their pet loads. My best shooting barrel is my 6mm Norma BR R8. I have shot several five shot groups at 100 yards under .2 MOA with it. My K95 .22 Hornet is my next most accurate barrel.
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Re: Blaser R8 vs Tikka for Long Range Shooting an Hunting

Post by rick137 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:38 pm

An interesting thought experiment. We all think, or hope, Blaser manufactured rifles to have superior accuracy to comparable Sako rifles. Otherwise, we are just irrational fanboys lusting after everything with the Blaser logo and mystic.

Because of manufacturing tolerances, the accuracy of a set of Blaser rifles with identical configuration would have a probability distribution even if all other variables affecting accuracy were identical So would the accuracy of a set of Sako rifles. In statistical terms one would expect the mean of the Sako accuracy to be less than mean of the Blaser accuracy. But how much overlap of the two distributions? Depends on magnitude of differences in the mean and standard deviation. What if 80% of Sako rifles would have equal or greater accuracy than Blaser? 60% 40% 10%. Blaser owners might hope it is only 10%.

Just for fun, if a Tikka were completely accurized, how would its accuracy distribution change? Could it equal a Blasers with the purchase and accursing costs a fraction of a Blaser’s cost?
BlaserSakoAccuracy.jpg
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Re: Blaser R8 vs Tikka for Long Range Shooting an Hunting

Post by 7x57 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:32 pm

rick137 wrote:An interesting thought experiment. We all think, or hope, Blaser manufactured rifles to have superior accuracy to comparable Sako rifles. Otherwise, we are just irrational fanboys lusting after everything with the Blaser logo and mystic.

Because of manufacturing tolerances, the accuracy of a set of Blaser rifles with identical configuration would have a probability distribution even if all other variables affecting accuracy were identical So would the accuracy of a set of Sako rifles. In statistical terms one would expect the mean of the Sako accuracy to be less than mean of the Blaser accuracy. But how much overlap of the two distributions? Depends on magnitude of differences in the mean and standard deviation. What if 80% of Sako rifles would have equal or greater accuracy than Blaser? 60% 40% 10%. Blaser owners might hope it is only 10%.

Just for fun, if a Tikka were completely accurized, how would its accuracy distribution change? Could it equal a Blasers with the purchase and accursing costs a fraction of a Blaser’s cost?



BlaserSakoAccuracy.jpg

Interesting thought esp your last sentence. Having both Blaser and Tikka I have partially gone down the route of accurising my Tikka 223 AI and the results are outstanding. I have asked one of Oz foremost smiths about a complete accurizing (he makes rifles for the Oz team members) and he stated that he has no hesitation in doing so as the results are extremely cost effective and the rifle stunningly accuarate. Like my Blasers but they are not the only rifle in my collection.

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Re: Blaser R8 vs Tikka for Long Range Shooting an Hunting

Post by Spartan » Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:50 pm

I own both R93 and R8. I believe the accuracy with R8 is superior for heavy recoiling calibres. I suspect this is not merely due to the extra .5 kg. weight advantage, although I have no proof. I have tested relaods on 300winMag for both models and always struggled to get the same precision with the R93 in 300WinMag. However, the R93 is not disadvantaged in the accuracy department for lighter calibres such as 308W, 7mm 08, 243W, etc..

In my book, the R93 has significant advantage over the R8 and most other rifles, because it is a more lively rifle and therefore better suited for stalking, whereas the R8 is more suited for heavy calibres and long range.

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Re: Blaser R8 vs Tikka for Long Range Shooting an Hunting

Post by deerhunter338mag » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:02 pm

I think it really comes down to the guy pulling the trigger. Heavy guns sure make it a lot more easier to shoot longer distances as there’s less issues with the operator. It’s always fun to let guys that have never shot more than a few hundred meters have a crack out to 1000m and hit the target. But give them a lighter gun and they miss every time. If it’s a light gun it becomes more about technique and skill and taking the time to learn how to precision shoot.
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Re: Blaser R8 vs Tikka for Long Range Shooting an Hunting

Post by ebrownw2 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:23 pm

Most modern production rifles can made to shoot as good as a Blaser with a little gunsmith worth, and that route is usually more cost efficient than a Blaser. This argument completely misses the whole point (for me) of the Blaser systems.

Can you change your tikka/Remington/etc barrel to any caliber you want in 20 seconds and still have that accuracy? Can you break it down to travel in a takedown shotgun case? Can you swap scopes from one rifle/barrel to another in seconds? And then there's the Blaser R8/R93 action's design shortening the overall rifle length by 2-3" without giving up barrel length, speed of follow up shots, safety of carrying an uncocked rifle, blah blah blah. And besides all of that, the convenience of never having to hassle with getting a trigger job, glass bedding, etc. That's why I'm an unapologetic Blaser fanboy. Superior design, convenient accuracy, and modularity.

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Re: Blaser R8 vs Tikka for Long Range Shooting an Hunting

Post by 9.3x64 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:26 pm

ebrownw2 wrote:Most modern production rifles can made to shoot as good as a Blaser with a little gunsmith worth, and that route is usually more cost efficient than a Blaser. This argument completely misses the whole point (for me) of the Blaser systems.

Can you change your tikka/Remington/etc barrel to any caliber you want in 20 seconds and still have that accuracy? Can you break it down to travel in a takedown shotgun case? Can you swap scopes from one rifle/barrel to another in seconds? And then there's the Blaser R8/R93 action's design shortening the overall rifle length by 2-3" without giving up barrel length, speed of follow up shots, safety of carrying an uncocked rifle, blah blah blah. And besides all of that, the convenience of never having to hassle with getting a trigger job, glass bedding, etc. That's why I'm an unapologetic Blaser fanboy. Superior design, convenient accuracy, and modularity.
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Re: Blaser R8 vs Tikka for Long Range Shooting an Hunting

Post by SPEEDY » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:35 pm

I don't think anyone here needs to be told the Blasers advantages, we're already converts.
I've no problems with other rifles in the safe, I've only got two non Blasers being my grandpa's shotgun and my 77/44 pig slayer.
I'd like a Model seven laminate and want to buy one, and maybe if I can talk myself into it a CZ combination gun.
But I dont need a lot of things, its just nice to have something different to play with every now and then.
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Re: Blaser R8 vs Tikka for Long Range Shooting an Hunting

Post by ebrownw2 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:51 pm

Oh I've got plenty of Rugers, Brownings, weatherbys, keltecs, various AR15s, a (gasp) Mossberg thanks to this site of all possible influences, a Berretta, Franchi, CZ, Remington, Colt, Krieghoff, Smith & Wesson, Rossi, Taurus, NEF, Marlin, and probably a couple more I've forgot. And I've owned and played with many other makes. I have no problem with other guns in my collection, but when I reach in there my hand always seem to settle on a K95 or an R8, and if you ever get in the passenger seat of my truck you'll be sharing it with a R93 off-road 222.

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Re: Blaser R8 vs Tikka for Long Range Shooting an Hunting

Post by SPEEDY » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:13 pm

Yep, I've had a lot of different guns over the tears but the only gun thats always in there are an R93 ir three.
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Re: Blaser R8 vs Tikka for Long Range Shooting an Hunting

Post by rick137 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:34 pm

ebrownw2:

An R8 trigger the cat's meow? Not so compared to S404 or R14 if you live in the USA and cannot purchase an ATZL trigger. Perhaps Stocon Match redresses the inbalance.
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Re: Blaser R8 vs Tikka for Long Range Shooting an Hunting

Post by 7x57 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:30 pm

ebrownw2 wrote:Most modern production rifles can made to shoot as good as a Blaser with a little gunsmith worth, and that route is usually more cost efficient than a Blaser. This argument completely misses the whole point (for me) of the Blaser systems.

Can you change your tikka/Remington/etc barrel to any caliber you want in 20 seconds and still have that accuracy? Can you break it down to travel in a takedown shotgun case? Can you swap scopes from one rifle/barrel to another in seconds? And then there's the Blaser R8/R93 action's design shortening the overall rifle length by 2-3" without giving up barrel length, speed of follow up shots, safety of carrying an uncocked rifle, blah blah blah. And besides all of that, the convenience of never having to hassle with getting a trigger job, glass bedding, etc. That's why I'm an unapologetic Blaser fanboy. Superior design, convenient accuracy, and modularity.
Understand where you are coming from and for my hunting needs and interstate travel the Blaser is unbeatable. The accuracy and modularity is unparalleled. Unfortunately for some range/club situations they arent really adequate such as PRS or Field Rifle (not enough mag capacity) and for Long Range Precision have gone with a full custom set up that is swell suited to this discipline. For Big Bore however I bring out the Blaser 9.3.

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