Terminal Performance

[Vaughan]

Interesting to see those Woodies. For a big round nosed soft point bullet, they sure hold together well! I use the 286gr version in my 74r and also reload them for my friends 62. Not yet recovered any. I shot a couple using the 320s as well - also straight through with the moose not seeming to know it was shot until it fell over from blood loss. I have been wondering if they are maybe a little hard for the intended game I'm targeting. But the 286s were all 1-shot kills and the animals never went so far as to make tracking difficult so I figure they work - and it is only several moose not a couple of hundred... and yeah I know, envy is such an ugly emotion... LOL!

[stokesrj]

I've now completed my first run at a reduced load matrix for my .308 and 165-168 grain bullets using H4895. For others that may be interested the following loads produced these velocities.

25 - 1251
26 - 1329
27 - 1362
28 - 1442
29 - 1502
30 - 1626
31 - 1695
32 - 1789
33 - 1833
34 - ?
35 - 1991
36 - ?
37 - 2143
38 - 2198
39 - 2266

I need to collect a few more pieces of data that are missing. One of the issues with the Lab Radar is that the velocity range settings, pistol or rifle is right around 1600 fps. So if you have it on the wrong one you get no data. That's why I missed a few and need to repeat. But I can see enough that 38 grains will be my mid velocity test load (2000 fps) and 33 grains will be my low velocity test load (1800 fps) and then I will have to find each bullets minimum velocity threshold by trial and error.

Incidentally, I am using the Sierra 168 grain Match King to collect this data as it has proven to be within a few fps of the others and very tight spreads of velocity. I can see that this combination of bullet and powder is exceptionally accurate. This entire ladder matrix was shot at 100 yards and is less than one half inch wide and nine inches tall. It is basically a straight line.

[stokesrj]

Book says 2000fps.

I just did a quick JBM calculation and it says that it would hit 2000 fps between 175 and 200 yards assuming a 2400 fps muzzle velocity. Have you shot anything that far with them?

[mchughcb]

Yes several at a measured 250m. The shots past 180m are the generally the ones where ive recovered the bullets. They still flatten out ok.

[Blasernovice]

When I had a 30/06 I used to do a lot of goat shooting at close ranges in the bush. I used the 165gr Sierra Gameking SPBT projectile at probably 2600-2700. I found on goats I would often need 2 shots or they would run off.
Guy in a gunshop told me Sierras were a tough bullet so I switched to 130gr Speer HP and Sierra 125gr SP, then I got devistating kills on broadside shots.
I didn't shoot many deer with the 165gr, but they did kill deer better than goats.
In my 7mm rem mag I used the 2 load system. 162a-max for 300yds plus and 160accubond inside 300yds. This worked well.
I don't think there is the perfect projectile and you really do need to use the right projectile for the occasion.

[stokesrj]

Guy in a gunshop told me Sierras were a tough bullet so I switched to 130gr Speer HP and Sierra 125gr SP, then I got devistating kills on broadside shots.

Sierra uses a few different jackets in their hunting bullets, the 165 grain Game King SPBT uses the same jacket as the Tipped Game King that I tested, which is very thick .050" tapering down to .018" at the nose. It will behave as even a harder bullet and as you can see in my test provides deep penetration and sheds very little weight which means it will not provide the shock effect of a more rapidly fragmenting bullet. However on more heavily muscled animals such as a large wild boar for instance, it does a really good job up close to mid range but as you will see in my upcoming tests is not a candidate for quick kills at long range. Even Sierra acknowledges this "The 165 grain #2145 bullet is best suited to medium game at all velocity levels, and game the size of elk could be taken with confidence providing velocity doesn't exceed 3000 fps and the range is limited to about 300 yards."

[Joe338ST]

Thanks Chuck, that is a pretty impressive collection of 220 Woodleighs and they certainly do the job for you under your hunting conditions. I have no doubt that bonded core bullets work well on heavily muscled game such as Sambar and this type of bullet as long as impact velocity is kept high by keeping the range short. I think the same bullet would produce slow kills once the range gets much beyond 250 yards or so though. Do you have any idea of the minimum impact velocity required to cause the bullet to expand? I would think something around 2,000 fps or so but it may be lower due to the wide meplat.
One of my great losses in life was when I left my collection of recovered bullets in my car when it went through a car wash. They were mistakenly identified as trash and discarded. By the time I discovered the collection missing and returned to the car wash the trash had already been collected and hauled away. I know that would mean little to many but I still grieve over that loss.

BLOODY NORA!

[stokesrj]

The mid and low velocity testing has begun using 32 grains of H4895 for 1,800 FPS impact velocity and 38 grains of H4895 for 2200 fps impact velocity with the 168 ELD-M, 168 Tipped MatchKing, 165 Tipped GameKing, 165 Ballistic Tip and 165 Accubond.

[9.3x64]

I never get tired of reading your load development posts Bob. Always so interesting, and really appreciate you sharing your data.

[stokesrj]

Thanks, I am glad that someone will gain some insight to how bullets of various construction behave over a range of impact velocities. I'm going to post pics and info as I go and then come back and organize it in a better format for review.
The 165 grain Nosler Ballistic tip is the first one I have data for both a 2200 and 1800 fps impact. For this bullet if fired from my R8 with it's 16.5" barrel would align with a 250 yard impact at 2200 fps and 500 yard impact at 1800 fps. It did much better than I expected, but look quite different than the marketing pictures Nosler puts forth.

At 1800 fps the bullet penetrated 27.5" and the core separated from the jacket but were either touching one another or very near touching when they came to rest at the end of their track. It was evident that there was a large temporary cavity and enough shock was transmitted to break a 3/8" sheet of plywood under the block.

ZwnFScCURsGuRZJR73P+XQ.jpg

cYb9vaiNRHynY7RynBGqpA.jpg

At 2200 FPS the 165 grain Ballistic Tip separated from it's jacket much earlier which reduced penetration but also transmitted greater shock, the core was at 24' and the jacket was at 18".

QPNvPCB8RpyhmnFO73IgNA.jpg

[mchughcb]

Great stuff Bob and I appreciate you going to the effort.

[stokesrj]

Here is the Nosler 165 grain Accubond. I was not impressed as at 1800 FPS it turned around backwards and traveled base first like a solid, making a very small wound cavity, what we would call a pencil sized wound. It penetrated 34" before stopping.

I78JjCZXSx+ox9hn9JxYCw.jpg

At 2200 fps it did much better and penetrated 36.5" with a reasonable mushroom diameter but still did not caused the wide wound channel of the softer bullets.

HdAx5TacTK2jLQtKP8+DAg.jpg

[stokesrj]

The 165 grain Tipped MatchKing did really well at 2200 FPS causing a very wide wound channel and penetrated 25.25" with the core and jacket intact and a wide mushroom.
However at 1800 FPS the bullet upset and took a wide right turn exiting the right side of the block at 26" of penetration. I'll have to do this one over.

LuQ5upEvTZat9R6QT+iv1A.jpg

[canalrifle]

The current January/February 2019 issue of Safari Club's "Safari Magazine" has an article by Wayne Van Zwoll "What Are Yor Bullets Doing In There?" that looks on point with the subject of terminal performance.

[stokesrj]

I’ll have to give that a read. Wayne and I are both NRA high power rifle competitors. I watched a video of him shooting a bull elk in New Mexico with a 6.5 Creedmoor at 640 yards with the 129 grain Hornady SST from prone with a sling. He is my kind of shooter. The elk went down in sight maybe 40 yards from the hit.