Terminal Performance

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Re: Terminal Performance

Post by stokesrj » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:49 am

The Sierra Tipped GameKing (Gamechanger) is the biggest disappointment of my mid and low velocity testing so far. After a fantastic performance at full velocity, 2600 FPS, I was expecting similar performance at 2200 FPS perhaps with deeper penetration and less expansion but to my surprise the bullet broke apart at about 8" of penetration with the jacket going one way and the core another neither made it through the first gell block and stopped at 12" and 14" and both pieces veered off path. The wound channel was also small which has me kind of scratching my head wondering what happened. Usually when a bullet loses this much mass it creates a wide wound channel, this one did not.
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The 1800 fps performance was even worse. The bullet failed to upset and behaved as a solid penetrating 47" with a pencil thin wound channel. This would surely result in a slow kill and difficult recovery of the game animal.
YtpL4iBHRjGHTFnQTSvQgA.jpg
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Re: Terminal Performance

Post by stokesrj » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:22 am

This is what the ballistic gel looks like as a 165 grain Sierra Tipped Game King passes through at 2600 FPS. This would be an awesome bullet at traditional hunting ranges. You can see the diameter of the wound channel is huge, so huge that if placed through the chest cavity of any sized game up to Elk it would be devastating. It's too bad that the longer range results are so poor.
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Re: Terminal Performance

Post by stokesrj » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:56 am

This is the format I'm considering to organize the information for each bullet

Sierra #4665 .308" 165 grain Tipped GameKing.

Diameter - .308"
Weight - 165 grains
Length - 1.405"
Base to Ogive - .775"
G1 BC - .530
Jacket Thickness - .050"-.018"
Tip Diameter - .145"
Hollow Point Diameter - .010

2600 FPS
Penetration - 27.5"
Retained Weight - 143.7 grains
Retained Weight % - 87.1%
Core Separation - No

2200 FPS
Penetration - 14"
Retained Weight - 62.7 grains
Retained Weight % - 38.0%
Core Separation - Yes

1800 FPS
Penetration - 47"
Retained Weight - 163.8 grains
Retained Weight % - 99.3%
Core Separation - No, no expansion either
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Re: Terminal Performance

Post by Blasernovice » Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:03 pm

I remember another low velocity impact test I read about, one thing that came up was by starting the projectile at low speed the RPM of the projectile was lower than a higher velocity, they wondered what effect that might have on terminal results.

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Re: Terminal Performance

Post by stokesrj » Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:21 pm

I’ve wondered the same thing but the alternative is trying to place the bullet down the center of the line of gel blocks at 500 yards. It could be done but I’m unaware of anyone trying. You are looking at $450 for three gel blocks to see. But it would be interesting. I have shot the low velocity loads at 100 yards and they are accurate and show no signs of yaw so they seem stable.
I have gotten similar results on game at long range so it seems to be somewhat representative. Few of us can shoot hundreds or thousands of animals to verify results over all the variables.
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Re: Terminal Performance

Post by Joe338ST » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:05 pm

stokesrj wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:56 am
This is the format I'm considering to organize the information for each bullet

Sierra #4665 .308" 165 grain Tipped GameKing.

Diameter - .308"
Weight - 165 grains
Length - 1.405"
Base to Ogive - .775"
G1 BC - .530
Jacket Thickness - .050"-.018"
Tip Diameter - .145"
Hollow Point Diameter - .010

2600 FPS
Penetration - 27.5"
Retained Weight - 143.7 grains
Retained Weight % - 87.1%
Core Separation - No

2200 FPS
Penetration - 14"
Retained Weight - ? grains
Retained Weight % - ? %
Core Separation - Yes

2600 FPS
Penetration - 47"
Retained Weight - ? grains
Retained Weight % - ? %
Core Separation - No, no expansion either
Bob I think that one of them should be 1800.
Amazing work there Bob!
Joe

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Re: Terminal Performance

Post by stokesrj » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:47 pm

I corrected it, thanks, will add the weights soon. Weights added
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Re: Terminal Performance

Post by SPEEDY » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:56 pm

Very unreliable expansion, or at least inconsist expansion.
I'd love to see that test repeated with the 165gn Nosler BT, I think it would be surprising.
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Re: Terminal Performance

Post by stokesrj » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:00 am

SPEEDY wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:56 pm
Very unreliable expansion, or at least inconsist expansion.
I'd love to see that test repeated with the 165gn Nosler BT, I think it would be surprising.
I haven't yet tested the 165 BT at full velocity but I have at 2200 and 1800 fps. Look back one page. The jacket and core separated at both velocities but it did a much better job than the Sierra Tipped Game King at those lower velocities. Hopefully I can complete the 2600 fps test soon.
As you know I am biased against the 165 grain BT because of many splash wounds I witnessed when they first were introduced many years ago. It looks like they have clearly fixed that issue with a much thicker and tougher jacket of the hunting BT.
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Re: Terminal Performance

Post by Blasernovice » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:57 pm

I once shot a red stag at 8 metres with a .308 165gr Nosler BT from my 30/06. I think the mv was 2650ish fps. Shot was front on as he looked over a rise down at me. Shot was centre chest through the windpipe/jugular. I recovered the projectile in the backstrap above his shoulder. I can't exactly remember what it looked like ( was back in 1997) but it was pretty much full expansion.

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Re: Terminal Performance

Post by SPEEDY » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:06 pm

stokesrj wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:00 am
SPEEDY wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:56 pm
Very unreliable expansion, or at least inconsist expansion.
I'd love to see that test repeated with the 165gn Nosler BT, I think it would be surprising.
I haven't yet tested the 165 BT at full velocity but I have at 2200 and 1800 fps. Look back one page. The jacket and core separated at both velocities but it did a much better job than the Sierra Tipped Game King at those lower velocities. Hopefully I can complete the 2600 fps test soon.
As you know I am biased against the 165 grain BT because of many splash wounds I witnessed when they first were introduced many years ago. It looks like they have clearly fixed that issue with a much thicker and tougher jacket of the hunting BT.
Don't know how I missed that, sober anyway.

But I noticed that both separated and I find that strange, I recovered a few on game and don't remember any separations. But I do remember it working extremely well at close and long range, I'm curious about what a 1500fps impact would look like.

But that was very interesting.
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Re: Terminal Performance

Post by stokesrj » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:28 pm

I'm finding in a lot of my testing that conventional cup and core bullets separate more frequently at low velocity than at high velocity. My theory is that at high velocity the forces of expansion keep the core jammed into the jacket and the frontal area results in them both slowing at relatively the same speed. At low velocity the ruptured jacket creates more drag and slows down faster than the core, so the core pulls away. At really low velocity the jacket ruptures, thin jackets that is, and releases the core right away. I've seen this several times now where at 1800 fps the jacket comes apart just a few inches in and the core just keeps on going.
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Re: Terminal Performance

Post by SPEEDY » Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:16 pm

I've got the same thought, at high velocity they sort of get fusion welded to the jacket, but I wouldn't be worried about low velocity jacket separations as if they still mushroom then they will still do a lot of damage, even at low speed.
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Re: Terminal Performance

Post by stokesrj » Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:15 pm

Yes I agree, shedding the jacket at low velocity is probably a good thing because the jacket has protected the core until it has slowed down enough that the lead stays together and penetrates deeply. The wound channel definitely widens when the jacket separates, so it is transferring more energy and sending shrapnel out in a cone shaped pattern where they will be slashing vital organs.
I tested the 165 BR at 2600 FPS today and it did real well. Definitely proves to me that Nosler fixed the problem I had with this bullet that soured me on them. I also tested the 165 Accubond and 165 SST at 2600 as well. They all did good at this velocity.
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Re: Terminal Performance

Post by 6.5x55 » Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:36 am

Thanks for your efforts posting this information. It's very interesting.

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