Berger bullets OTM vs EH for hunting

[Rifletuner]

Just wondering if anyone has any first hand experience running Berger OTM bullets for hunting? From what I have read, the bullets have the same profile, but the OTM jackets are marginally thicker.

I want to try some 250gn bullets in my 338 Edge, but only have the OTMs available. From what I can tell, the velocities from the edge should get good expansion with the OTMs, and the slight jacket thickness may offer a little more margin for error on closer range shots.

At least thats the theory. Trying to find out if it holds up in the real world.

[deerhunter338mag]

Here is my take on it. I'm yet to work out the difference. I shot a stag at 300m with my 300wm using the 210gr Vld hunting. It was only later I realised I grabbed the wrong ones and it was the target version. Damage was exactly the same. With bergers out here it all comes down to what's available at the time. if you can only get OTM then you use them. Mates have used them and had no issues in the 338"s big guns. My experience with them is there an awesome LR projectile and there not real the best at close range and you really need to hit bone for them to work. LR different story. Buy in bulk as there hard to get and always make sure you can fit a safety pin in the tip. If not, its a target round.

[Rifletuner]

Thanks mate. After I posted, I did some googling and found other sites in the US that seemed to be saying much the same thing as you are reporting. Great to hear you have had similar experiences.

I have some of the 250gn OTMs on their way from BRT. The 250 OTMs were the only 338 bullet they actually had stock of. So if I only use what I have for sight in and hunting with the occasional verification of the scope zero, they should last me a few years.

[secondtry]

I don't use Bergers, but I would be amazed if there is any difference in jacket thickness between the two. Added manufacturing and tooling cost for no real benefit. Why would they bother ?

Any differences are more likely to be in the profiling and forming of the tip and the ogive.

[stokesrj]

The difference is in the thickness of the jacket. Originally, all Berger bullets used the thin J4 jacket but they eventually ran into problems when they were driven hard through barrels with a carbon ring in front of the chamber. A small percentage of them would then suffer the blue puff of death as they became molten and spun apart in mid air. The solution to this was a thicker jacket. All current hunting bullets use the original thin J4 jacket were all target bullets including the OTM use the thicker jacket. These thicker jackets sometimes fail to expand when they are not met with sufficient resistance, they simply pencil through and do not create a wide wound chanel.

[Rifletuner]

The difference is in the thickness of the jacket. Originally, all Berger bullets used the thin J4 jacket but they eventually ran into problems when they were driven hard through barrels with a carbon ring in front of the chamber. A small percentage of them would then suffer the blue puff of death as they became molten and spun apart in mid air. The solution to this was a thicker jacket. All current hunting bullets use the original thin J4 jacket were all target bullets including the OTM use the thicker jacket. These thicker jackets sometimes fail to expand when they are not met with sufficient resistance, they simply pencil through and do not create a wide wound chanel.

Yes, I agree with the background. The difference is in the jacket thickness. However it seems to get a bit flaky after that. Plenty of people say they dont see any difference between the EH and the OTM. But others say they see a significant difference in terminal performance. One point with the Berger bullets (in general, not just OTMs) seems to be the recommendation to use a very fine drill bit to ensure the open tip is clear of anything that might effect bullet expansion.

I guess its like many bullet discussions these days, were you can find some vary varied opinions on what is good / bad about a given bullet?

[stokesrj]

The Berger factory is only five miles from my house and several of the guys that work there shoot with me at my range where I am a range officer. I get to talk to them a lot and am very confident in the jacket differences. The OTM's which have the thicker jackets work just fine as long as there is sufficient resistance from the game for the impact velocity. They typically penetrate 2-3" and then come completely apart. As the range gets longer and the impact velocity gets lower, and if the game is light, it will fail to expand resulting in slow kills. I've seen this from the 338 Lapua Magnum on young red deer at the relatively close range of 450 meters. The EH has a thinner jacket that will more readily rupture so it will perform at longer ranges and on lighter game. I've never seen one fail to perform. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen as ranges get really long or the game offers little resistance. However, when fired from the 338LM or similar it has to bet really long range for that to happen.

[Blasernovice]

I used the 180gr OTM in my 7RUM at about 3200fps. Didn’t kill as well as 162amax in my 7mm mag at 3060fps.

[snookntarpon]

I shot the 130 OTM in a 6.5 GAP @ 3200fps. No issues. Up close the impact velocity dumps so much energy that there is bruising on the off side rib cage, but no pass throughs.
SnT

[longrider]

I shoot a lot of game, deer, antelope and elk with 230 otm’s in 300N from 100-800 yds. I typically let the animal’s position to me dictate the shot placement. At times I will do a high shoulder shot, scattering bone debris throughout for an instant drops and complete pass throughs.
Other times I have very successfully dumped animals heavily quartering and the just look my shot through to the vitals. Even elk that have massive stomach contents I have plowed on through to the vitals 100% one shot kills on over a dozen elk and scores of deer/antelope. I am not talking a blood trail but instant drops instant death or cessation within seconds, again - complete pass throughs.

Similar experiences with 338L 250-300 scenars, 300 win 190 smk and more recently 190 lrx.

My toughest kills were in AK this last September running my 300Win 190 lrx. 60” bull mooose @ 473yds, first shot top of the heart, unbelievably he got up and I sent 2 more quickly 1 high shoulder and 1 in the liver. Down and done.
Goat further than I wanted but no other way to get it done on the dude I wanted @804. I was confident on placement but knew my energy would be lower than ideal. First one broke his right shoulder, turned and broke his left shoulder deflating both lungs but he still traveled 30 plus yards before he gave out. One tough hombre. I am confident that if I had packed my heavier 300N both would have required only one shot with the 230 OTM’s @ 2950 muzzle fps.

Bull a couple of seasons ago, 230 otm quartering towards me @500 yds - instant one shot drop right side rear ribs exit ceased breathing within 5 seconds.

BDC3C672-B824-43B3-852B-3ED2334FE41D.jpeg

[Gamsjagd]

So I haven't shot F-Class in since 2014, but it used to be my thing.

I used to shoot at the Canberra Rifle club in Australia. And it was talked about (even back then) that the HTM and OTM were different bullets, and they gave different enough performance on game.

The only thing I ever shot with one was a couple hundred grey kangaroos. So I don't have a good answer on my honest thoughts on what the OTM does differently.

I did hear the same Berger story about original OTM's blowing up and costing a guy a match, and that is why the HTM became the regular OTM and the new OTM got a thicker jacket.

[Rifletuner]

So I haven't shot F-Class in since 2014, but it used to be my thing.

I used to shoot at the Canberra Rifle club in Australia. And it was talked about (even back then) that the HTM and OTM were different bullets, and they gave different enough performance on game.

The only thing I ever shot with one was a couple hundred grey kangaroos. So I don't have a good answer on my honest thoughts on what the OTM does differently.

I did hear the same Berger story about original OTM's blowing up and costing a guy a match, and that is why the HTM became the regular OTM and the new OTM got a thicker jacket.

Yeah mate. I know a bit of your background as we have interacted a bit on another forum.

From what I understand, the OTMs are only a couple of thousands thinker. Just enough to stop target bullets blowing up on with a faster twist barrel. What makes this a difficult question to quantify is that the answer seems to vary a little across calibres. But the consensus I can find is that most of the Berger Hybrids work well on game at long range.

Getting reliable reports on terminal performance of match bullets is very difficult as many people dont have a good understanding of what is happening, let alone the ability to describe it in detail. And so many reports are coloured by what people have been told. The amount of times I hear reports of animals shot with a match bullet that dropped on the spot, but didnt behave like a Barnes X or Nosler partition, so it "failed". Or if the animal didnt drop on the spot, thats proof the bullet is no good because it "pencilled through".

Anyhow, thanks for your thoughts.