Too clean?

[Vaughan]

Was out at the range over lunch today testing some new loads to replace the VLD load I have been using for the 6BR. Over the weekend I cleaned the bbl very thoroughly because it had notched up about 125 rounds since new and I thought it was time for a good clean. After the normal run through with KGIs system I wiped it out a few times with Barnes to be sure the copper was gone and then put it to bed with Prolix to be sure all the Barnes crap was out of the bbl. Nothing fancy.

Shot a series of 3 4-shot groups at 100m from the bench using my bipod as a front rest and a sandbag back rest. These groups were not great, max spread of 1" or so and was starting to think I was having a bad day. Then group #4 was better so I went back and re-shot one of the earlier loads that looked better than the rest - 3 were touching and #4 must have gone through one of the other holes. I then re-shot group #4 that had also looked good and again basically 1 ragged hole.

The bbl was behaving again and shooting sub 0.5" groups as it should.

I'm thinking it needed to "crud-up" a bit before it would shoot well. I've seen reference to this here on this group and on the 6BR forum as well but have not noted it before. I had a real flyer on the FRO after this thorough clean as well and that is also something this bbl does not normally do after cleaning. It is not a problem, just something I need to remember with this bbl, but I was wondering if this is commonly observed by others in the group?

/Vaughan

[mauserman]

Not unusual at all. I have a Rem. 700 PSS in 308 that is a shooter, but not with a clean barrel ! I only clean it when the groups start opening up. With Hornady 155gr TAP it shoots 1/2" until it gets @ 200-300 rounds through it. Then the group starts getting bigger until it reaches 1- 1.25 " after another 200-300 rounds. I clean it and shoot @6-10 rounds through it and it goes from 1" down to 1/2" and stays there for the next cycle as I described. BTW, this rifle has almost 3000 rds through it and has been this way since day one. My last outing with it I was shooting clay pigeons at 500 meters with it!

[skeetshot]

Not unusual at all.. . . .

One thing is clear : Most of us feel the need to thoroughly clean our barrels every now and then.

When we do, for a certain number of shots after cleaning, we loose our zero.

Hence the need to understand what we can do to our barrels after cleaning them to be quite close to this zero until we have fired that barrel adequately.

I have done a few experiments, and for my barrels, I now soak a patch in Hoppes No 9 and let it dry overnight. Then I run that patch three times through my barrel and find I am able to maintain my zero reasonably well till the normal cartridge deposits take over.

[NE450No2]

I do not like to hunt, especially in humid or wet weather with a "dirty" barrel.

So when on a hunt if I have fired a shot I will run a bore snake through the barrel a couple of times, which removes the "big chunks" of powder, which i believe will hel kee the barrel from rusting.

Also, I sometimes brush out the barrel with Prolix, and then dry it out.

So far I have not found Prolix to cause a shift in zero for the first few shots.

[retrieverman]

I pretty much never clean my barrels (on the inside, that is). I had my BBF shooting really good until I cleaned the barrel, and then my groups went to crap. After a few shot, they settled back in, and I have vowed to not do it again.

[Gun Barrel Ecologist]

Well I only use Hoppes 9 in my Blaser & Mauser barrels and G96 in my Steyr barrels.

Patched out with 3 dry patches before the next shooting / hunting trip I've not noticed a shift in first round POI.

I did make the mistake of using a copper removing solvent in the Steyr barrels early on - it shot like crap afterwards.

I've been advised by my gunsmith - who trained at Steyr - that hammer forged barrels need residual copper to shoot, whereas it it is the reverse in button cut & lapped target barrels found at benchrest matches. Trouble is it is the Benchrest mob that write the repeatedly published "cleanliness is godliness" mantras

[NE450No2]

The problem with leaving coper in your barrels over a long period of time is that you run the risk of having a reaction between the layer of copper and the barrel.

Some sort of galvanic??? electrolitic??? corrosive reaction can take place and cause pitting of the barrel, I have been told.???

I carried rifles in the trunk of my work car for 23 years. I always carried them clean, most of the time.

However when a barrel gets a lot of wear on it, it tends to shoot better fouled. My work SSG shot "pretty good" clean till around seven thousand rounds...

Then after a cleaning it would take 5 to 7 rounds to settle it down. So that is what I did.

After a few months I noticed some pitting at the muzzle.

The SSG was replaced for Duty use, but I kept it for "experimental" purposes. It started to string its groups vertically... While no longer accurate enough for work, it still shot good enough for hunting to ten thousand rounds, as long as it was "fouled" after cleaning...

[skeetshot]

As usual, you're right, NE 450:-
The corrosive reaction that causes pitted/rough barrels is often attributed to a very fine space between the barrel steel and the copper deposit which acts like a capilliary and "sucks" moisture between these two surfaces where it supposedly resides and corrodes the barrel steel. That is perhaps why the bench rest crowd likes their barrels squeaky clean, and for a fine barrel like a Blaser's this procedure should perhaps be followed too, maybe not as frequently, but certainly depending on weather/humidity conditions.
Therefore it may be better to find a safer way of fouling a cleaned barrel to maintain the zero than leave it uncleaned for too long.

[Gun Barrel Ecologist]

My understanding is that if properly oiled the moisture cant be "sucked" into the gap between copper and steel to start the pitting.

I believe in regular oiling, just not copper solvent use.

[mchughcb]

My blaser barrels shoot accurate ie. less than 0.75MOA at 100m regardless of whether they are clean or dirty, hot or cold. I make sure that they get the ammonia copper solvent (sweets) followed by hoppes no 9 then finally a patch of gun oil after every outing when it gets fired. I paid too much for those barrels to get any internal pitting.