What is your opinion on this matter?

[Aholz]

On AR forum I fount an interesting discussion. It is interesting what you guys think about it

All of BRHC’s hunts are non-smoking and no alcoholic beverages are permitted in camp. We ask that any perspective clients who do smoke/drink prepare for this accordingly and respect our camp rules.

Here is the outfitter's respond on some posts:

i just don't have drinks or smoke in the field, worked in camps that did and thats not what i'm out there for...i take guys out to hunt. drinking can wait when theres guns and bears around and my life...smokes make all my equitment smell bad and i have to get new stuff so the non smokes don't get headaches...thats all.

With all my respect to the outfitter’s rules, I think it would be too much for me to be told what I can do and what I cannot do during my paid ( not cheap) hunt. I am a smoker and a social drinker, however, I prefer to stay in non-smoking room at a hotel, never smoke at home, in a tent or other places inside. It is OK for me to step outside and have a cigarette . And I would understand and certainly obey such rule in a hunting lodge, outfitters boat or vehicle. But I do not accept when a person, that suppose to provide a paid service for me tells me that I am not allowed to smoke anywhere (outside) during my hunt. Assuming that I take good fire-safety care and keep the camp clean.
Regarding drinking: it is understandable that guns and booze do not work well together, however, I see nothing wrong why I should refrain from a drink or two in the evening, when the guns are put away.
I would understand if an outfitter reserves his right to cancel a hunting day (or half a day) if he fills that a hunting guest is not in good shape after last night drinks. We are all adults and we can decide ourselves what is good for us and what is not.
Obviously I would never book a hunt with such an outfitter.
So what do you think?

[skeetshot]

I dont smoke or drink.

Still, when I read about that outfitter's demands, I felt that he was being unreasonable, and did not properly grasp the client-outfitter relationship, instead was trying to impose his own beliefs on what he wanted.

Such an outfitter would have other inflexible demands and we go out to hunt for relaxation and enjoyment and not for this kind of tension and confrontation.

I would be wary of going to such an outfit.

[thechamp]

I don't smoke and honestly am not much of a drinker. However in a hunting camp I'd see nothing wrong with it if you want to step outside and have a cig or as indicated at the end of the day have a few drinks. I think this guy is 'rule' crazy and loves being a horses hiney. I suspect if he can get enough hunters to play by his rules he'll stay in business. If not he'll have some choices to make. So far we're free to decide who gets our hunting money.

My bud who runs the small hunting outfit in New Mexico would never be this strict. I suspect he might have an issue with somebody smoking when/while they're hunting in so far as it might spook or alert the game he's trying to put the hunter on but back at camp or to and from, it shouldn't be a problem. Smoke smell does linger on the smoker and depending on how close they're trying to get it might be an issue. I'm quite sure he'd explain his 'rules' to the hunter's satisfaction. And if the hunter really wants a trophy he should understand that those rules are made to insure he has a better opportunity to get that trophy.

[BLASERNUT]

Having been in camps in the past where entirely too much alcohol was consumed I can understand there needs to be a happy medium, however posting NO drinking, No smoking must limit his prospective clientele.... We seem to be moving away from personal / moral ethics and personal responsibility at a rapid pace - hard to believe a man is trying to SELL hunts and in doing so is telling another he or she cannot enjoy a fine cigar and adult beverage around a fire at the end of the day

[Aholz]

Smoking during a hunt is another interesting issue I think. Cigarette smoke stinks; there is now doubt about it. And I am always struggling with a dilemma: to smoke or not to smoke when I am sitting on a stand. A few years ago I read one of Capstick’s books where he mentioned that sitting in a blind and waiting for a leopard he smoked a cigarette and allowed his client to have one too. His explanation was: if a leopard can smell the smoke of a cigarette, than he will smell the hunters. I was surprised at first. I gave a lot of thoughts to that matter and finally tried to think logically: you walk from your vehicle to the stand and you sweat. A little bit, but sweat. All deodorants apply on certain parts of our body and no one apply it on his head, but the head sweats the most. We wash our hunting clothes with special detergents to get rid if smell, but no one washes their hunting hat or cap as often. And the most important – no one can sit on a stand and not breathe. Let’s do a little calculation: lets say, sitting still we exhale 0.5-1.0 litter of air each breath. We do 10- 15 breath a minute. It is 10 litters of used air each minute or 600 litters per hour. Sitting on a stand for 5 hours we produce 3 cubic meters of used humid air. If somebody thinks that our used air is unscented, I will not agree with it. It does smell for any animals and it stinks human. If by any chance you chew a gun or use any other “breath savers” – you are done. Add to it passing gas…
Now any scent travels with wind. Not faster and not slower. Now the Capstick’s statement makes much more sense for me.
I have talked to several PHs who were smokers. They told me that noise and movement are the hunter’s enemies #1. And smoking is not that bad to reveal your presence.
One more thing to support my theory: smell of diesel fuel attracts hogs, smoke of burning wood attracts bears… Who has a solid proof that cigarette smoke spooks animals? I have played back some of my successful hunts. I have to admit that I shot my huge black bear right after I finished my cigarette. The same with the whitetail. The same with my moose.
What do you think about that?

[retrieverman]

Whether I smoke or drink is immaterial, but my opinion on this is pretty simple. If you want to hunt with this outfitter, you play by his rules. If you don't like his rules, find another outfitter.

[thechamp]

Smoking during a hunt is another interesting issue I think. Cigarette smoke stinks; there is now doubt about it. And I am always struggling with a dilemma: to smoke or not to smoke when I am sitting on a stand. A few years ago I read one of Capstick’s books where he mentioned that sitting in a blind and waiting for a leopard he smoked a cigarette and allowed his client to have one too. His explanation was: if a leopard can smell the smoke of a cigarette, than he will smell the hunters. I was surprised at first. I gave a lot of thoughts to that matter and finally tried to think logically: you walk from your vehicle to the stand and you sweat. A little bit, but sweat. All deodorants apply on certain parts of our body and no one apply it on his head, but the head sweats the most. We wash our hunting clothes with special detergents to get rid if smell, but no one washes their hunting hat or cap as often. And the most important – no one can sit on a stand and not breathe. Let’s do a little calculation: lets say, sitting still we exhale 0.5-1.0 litter of air each breath. We do 10- 15 breath a minute. It is 10 litters of used air each minute or 600 litters per hour. Sitting on a stand for 5 hours we produce 3 cubic meters of used humid air. If somebody thinks that our used air is unscented, I will not agree with it. It does smell for any animals and it stinks human. If by any chance you chew a gun or use any other “breath savers” – you are done. Add to it passing gas…
Now any scent travels with wind. Not faster and not slower. Now the Capstick’s statement makes much more sense for me.
I have talked to several PHs who were smokers. They told me that noise and movement are the hunter’s enemies #1. And smoking is not that bad to reveal your presence.
One more thing to support my theory: smell of diesel fuel attracts hogs, smoke of burning wood attracts bears… Who has a solid proof that cigarette smoke spooks animals? I have played back some of my successful hunts. I have to admit that I shot my huge black bear right after I finished my cigarette. The same with the whitetail. The same with my moose.
What do you think about that?

Good points. I guess the conventional wisdom is that all those things you pointed out are necessary to hunt. That also helps explain why I rather just shoot the dam thing at 300 yards where he can't SMELL ME! And if he does more power to him.... I just know that all the experts wear their scent free clothes wrapped in plastic bags from where they were washed in scent free soap and shower and shampoo with fancy scent free soaps.. Hey it's proved that it works on those guys... They keep buying it convinced it is the cats azz. lol I do believe though that the animals can smell you very well just as you say from your breath, etc., if they're close enough.

[Corjack]

This is a very interesting subject. I really can see both sides of it. Here are a few points I have thought of.

1. Europeans, seem to be much more considerate than Americans when they smoke. Nearly every European I have known that smoked, went outside and did it. Americans that smoke, tend to do it where ever they are at, at the time. Having wall tents made out of canvas myself, I can imagine they would reek of cigarette smoke in short order, and since they are very hard to clean, it would not be a good thing.

1B. there are areas of the US where drinking is not done on a regular basis, some clients come from backgrounds or areas that this is so. They get to camp, and take it as an oppurtunity to partake in something they are not used to. I have seen amatuer drinkers get in trouble in short order. Europeans seem to drink more consistantly than Americans, and have less problems with it.

2. Perhaps this Outfitter hunts hard, and expects you to do so as well, even a little head ache from just one too many may effect the success of a hunt, and a lot of oitfitters pride themselves on their succesfull hunts.

3. Perhaps he is a dick, and being way too persnicketty.

4. May be he has had a few too many bad experiances

5. May be he is a recovering addict, and needs to not be around products of this sort to continue his recovery.

6. Most decent guides and outfitters are booked up solid, and they can make the rules the clients have to go by.

7. I would question the rules with the outfitter before making a decision to use or not use him. He may have good reasons for his rules, or he may be just a dick. A few simple question should quickly determine witch.

[mauserman]

It is his rules and I personally wouldn't go there.
I don't smoke but I do like to have a beer or two once in a while, especially after an exciting hunt. I thought that's what all this being a man and beating drums and such was all about. Personally I'm so tired of hearing about how bad all this stuff is for you I might take up smoking just to be obnoxious.

[NE450No2]

I do not smoke, but I doo like a we bit of Scotch or in hot weather a Gin and Tonic in the evening. I would not hunt with that guy,

On smoking while hunting, my PH's all smoked, and we shot a lot of game up close.

I agree with the above post that all that you can do to eleminate "hunter smells" does not work one little bit.

What I do think that works is sone type of cover scent. Where I pig hunt raccoon urine seems to work best.

The various HS Scent wafers seem to work good as well.

[SPEEDY]

Now I smoke and drink, but I respect his rules, however I wouldn't hunt with him. having a Beer around a campfire at night is half the fun for me

[Aholz]

Hey Speedy, I had a filling that you are as bad as I am

[thechamp]

Now I smoke and drink, but I respect his rules, however I wouldn't hunt with him. having a Beer around a campfire at night is half the fun for me

And the other half is wearing that skirt and carrying your 243!

[Aholz]

I just know that all the experts wear their scent free clothes wrapped in plastic bags from where they were washed in scent free soap and shower and shampoo with fancy scent free soaps.. Hey it's proved that it works on those guys... They keep buying it convinced it is the cats azz. lol

That could be another subject to chat about. Most of the camo fabric is made in China. To make sure that it looks good and "natural" they add special chemicals to enchance the colors and make them look good. Actually what they do (and all mordern detergents do) they add some stuff to make the colors to stand up, or in other words, to reflect ultraviolet lights better. For animal's view it is equal as you if you want to hide yourself in a crowd wearing an orange "monkey suite". BTW in Europe they do not like to wear camo. And it makes a lot of sense for me.

[retrieverman]

I vote that we end this topic and talk more about how useless camo really is.

I never really saw what the rub was with the no drinking or smoking thing any way. I can assure you that if you were to hunt with me that you will play by my rules, or I would invite you to leave. As long as the outfitter states the rules up front, he is well within his rights as a business owner.